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Re: How much hair growth can we expect from zinc oxide?

From: waseda
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 11:56:29
Remote Name: 211.132.39.111

Comments

Clis, have you experienced new vellus hairs within a few weeks after your first application of minox? And did minox alone make your vellus hair terminal?

Re: waseda please read/zinc william read

From: baldilocks
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 17:23:31
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

Fishy,

I gather that you are using the boric acid, Zinc Oxide powder formulation. Is there a reason to go this route rather than using Zinc Oxide cream, which seems easier to make?

The only consideration Ihave is leaving it on your scalp for 1 hr. A lot of Zinc can get absorbed through the skin. Certainly, it'll inhibit DHT, but I wonder if there are side effects from absorbing that much Zinc over a long period of time.

baldilocks

Re: waseda please read/zinc baldilocks

From: fishy
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 18:32:58
Remote Name: 152.163.206.198

Comments

correct i use the boric acid and zinc oxide and starch like patent posted by waseda, you may be right on the 1 hr being a bit to long to have it on.. trust me on this baldilocks ,, it is very easy to make. time will be the judge, but each day i do feel more life to my hair....

Re: to fishey

From:
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 08:08:53
Remote Name: 62.252.64.4

Comments

fishey where did you get the boric acid and zinc oxide from???

thanks man

Re: to fishey answer from fishy

From: fishy
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 14:46:04
Remote Name: 205.188.200.27

Comments

i got the boric acid at walgreens, maybe you can order from there web page, and the zinc oxide powder i had osco drug special order for me,, cost of boric acid was 5.99 dollars for 12 oz. and the zinc oxide was 22.50 dollars for 16 oz. corn starch was 1.99 dollar for 16 oz. a little about since using it. at work when i would look at my reflection on a dark computor screen i could see a shinny forehead and well the top of my head was easliy seen. started using jan.26 since then to now, i look at reflection and see a shinny forehead but you can not see a shinny scalp, but mind you if i bend my head down in front of a mirror you can still see my scalp, but you can for sure see hair grown,, and looking straight at the mirror no doubt a brown ,, not baby hair stuff but a brown haze growth is starting to appear,,, this is the truth, i know its starting to work for me. for how long, time will tell.. i strongly suggest to anyone, use the formula posted by the good man waseda. the zinc oxide cream is hard to work with, plus think of this you have a tube say 30% zinc oxide and the tube contains 10 grams then isn't 70% of the tube something other than zinc oxide, .....i've have tried many things. read this forum about this guy and that guy,, wondering when this will come out or that will come out. i read when waseda posted his comments, and i really beleived what he said, maybe thats the key to growth as well to beleive. total cost of treatment is far less than even rogain,, so figured what do i have to loose,, more hair ???... think about the various forms of diebetics and i believe there are that many reasons why there is hairloss and why some treatments work on some and not others. each person may have to search till they find there own cure... but this is worth a try...

waseda/fishy please  read zinc

From: william
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 20:03:24
Remote Name: 202.123.132.40

Comments

one more time in simple recipe measurements please.can i just use the zinc cream-asorbic acid-and corn starch with out the mulberry bark.what kind of alcohol to cut the oily zinc is good the zinc just seperated and did not blend together.could you use salitck acid also.please one more time how to mix and prepare.sorry for all this.william

Patent  6,103,273

Pharmaceutical composition comprising starch, a compound comprising boron, a compound comprising zinc, and water, and a method of using same to encourage hair growth

Abstract

A pharmaceutical composition for the treatment of alopecia areata and male pattern baldness is preferably made from boric acid, zinc oxide, and starch. The method of the present invention comprises applying the pharmaceutical composition of the present invention to a person's scalp. The pharmaceutical composition of the present invention can comprise 10 parts by weight starch, 60 parts by weight boric acid, 40 parts by weight zinc oxide, and 500 parts by weight water. The dry ingredients (starch, boric acid, and zinc oxide) are mixed together, then the water is added. The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, stirring continuously. The mixture will thicken, become smooth, and the final consistency will have minute lumps within the liquid. Preferably, before the pharmaceutical composition of the present invention is applied to the scalp, the bald spots are scrubbed with either pure lamb's wool or a soft-bristled brush made of animal hair. This cleanses the residue from the skin. The pharmaceutical composition of the present invention is then rubbed on the bald spots. After 25 minutes, the scalp is rinsed, removing any excess composition. This procedure is repeated daily for 15 days. The inventor has found that it usually takes three-fifteen days for pores to open and fifteen days to three months for fuzzy hair to appear. The inventor has found that it takes approximately one to six months for hair to grow to the point where it appears normal.

Where to get ingredients (Zinc Oxide powder, etc)

From: Tom
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 08:09:58
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Just a question to Waseda or anyone else who can answer this -- is there a good place on the 'net to purchase zinc oxide powder and ascorbic acid powder? I believe Waseda mentioned this was the simplest version of the treatment, sans boric acid. It's undoubtedly the zinc oxide in it that produces the desired effects anyway. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Tom

Easiest version of zinc oxide treatment (repost)

From: wadeda
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 09:03:22
Remote Name: 211.132.33.153

Comments

This is a revised copy of forum 17.

There are some versions of treatments, but this is probably the simplest, easiest way. Only two stuffs needed.

1. Red Clover Rash Care Cream 4 oz : $5.28

http://www.nutritionblvd.com/398106.html

(or some baby cream including zinc oxide10%-30%)

2. ASCORBIC ACID fine granular. Pure acid form vitamin C. 300 grams, $4.50. Code 118.1

https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi?product=Vitamins
&cart_id=2003479_6135

Prepare a glass of water(suppose it is 100ml) and add a half tea-spoon of Ascorbic acid powder(about 5g) into it and store the solution in the refrigerator. At the time of application, prepare a small dish, put 2g of the cream and add 2ml of the ascorbic acid water solution to it. Mix them and spread the half sticky, half liquid stuff on your target area. After 30minutes to 60minutes ( that is, after drying), wash it away. You had better apply the treatment once per day at first.

This MAY be the reason Zinc Oxide treatment is effective for some people, please read

From: Tom
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 09:42:58
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Hi everyone,

I started a little discussion on the HM forum awhile back regarding a Copper/Zinc connection to HL. The fact that there *is* a connection here involving Copper, Zinc, and HL, should not really be up to debate, as copper modulates hair growth. I'll try to keep this post brief, but give a few URL's for you folks to peruse should you want more info.

http://www.stophairloss.com/copperzinc.html http://www.seasilverhealth.com/deficiencies.html

The above 2 URLs give more info about the relationship of zinc to HL. It appears that an elevated level of copper in the body, leads to less zinc absorbtion, leading to zinc dificiency, which *can* lead to hair loss.

What are Zinc's roles in the body? Well for starters it is plentiful in the liver, skin, nails, and hair. Zinc is required for RNA/DNA synthesis, protein utilization, normalizing hormones (hmmmm...), amongst numerous other functions. It also allows the body's absorbtion of various B vitamins, which are essential for hair.

Copper and zinc form a vital ratio in the body; they balance each other out. Optimally a high level of zinc and low level of copper are what's needed.

Hair mineral analysis, or the "hair test", or tissue mineral analysis, all refer to the same thing: a lock of hair is taken from the patient's scalp, analyzed, and various information about toxicity and mineral levels in the body can be obtained; I had one several months ago, since then I have found that the whole hair test is dubious at best... and information has surfaced that it's not all that accurate. Still, mine told me that I was high (extremely high) in copper. Even in light of the new information surfacing that has cast doubt on the hair mineral analysis, I still strongly believe I am high in copper since I looked up the symtoms for copper toxicity, and I have every single one of them. Besides HL, high copper and/or low zinc (and high copper intakes lead to low zinc) lead to many other problems within the body, relating to energy level, sexual disfunction (hmmmm, there has been a long-held connection between HL and prostate problems), and others. High copper and/or low zinc levels in the body are very bad, long-term... it affects metabolism since the body's ability to utilize protein (the building blocks of life energy) is affected. Zinc is required by the body in abundance and is extremely important; a deficit will adversely affect it. Not too many people have normal levels of copper and low zinc; zinc level is adequate in the typical American diet (which is another discussion in itself). The problem usually arises when excess copper is taken in.

How does this occur? 1) Inadequately low zinc intake for a prolonged period of time

2) An individual is born with high copper, and this affects their copper/zinc profile for the rest of their life unless they take steps to get it back into balance. Can occur when the mother is high in copper; this excess is then passed on to the child.

3) Sluggish liver/gallbladder function. The liver and gallbladder eliminate excess copper from the body; the inability of the body to do this is called Wilson's Disease, the problems caused by this disease include -- you guessed it -- hair loss. The liver is the most important organ in the body right behind the heart and the brain, ironic since most people don't ever think about their liver unless it is having problems such as hepatitis, etc. The liver purifies the blood of toxins and regulates literally hundreds of bodily processes since it is the chemical factory of the body. Curious, I read about the liver and the chief reason the liver can be sluggish: the presence of stones (gallstones). Can stones be flushed out and eliminated from the liver without surgery? There is scientific evidence that the answer is 'yes'. I researched this as well and found two ways to flush out anything in the liver bile ducts that may be inhibiting proper bile flow and liver function in general. They are

a) The first is a homeopathic remedy that has been around for centuries. The following URLs detail it, but you can do a web search on the words "+liver", "+gallbladder", and "+flush" on northernlight.com to see as much info on it as you want.

http://www.joyfullivingservices.com/gallbladderflush.html http://www.drugfreehelp.com/uzherbs/diet/Gallbladder.htm

This forcefully flushes out stagnant bile, stones, etc. from the liver bile ducts, and allows them to be passed (without discomfort) to the stool.

b) The second method involves the use of a botanical, called Chanca Piedra (also called Quebra Piedra, or Royal Break-Stone). "Chanca Piedra" means "shatter stone" and this is a botanical indigenous to South America where it is used for this purpose. It is also anti-viral, and has many other beneficial properties.

http://www.wholeworldbotanicals.com/chanca.html http://www.blackherbals.com/Rainforest_Products-Chanca_Piedra.htm

I tried Chanca Piedra amongst a couple other herbal supplements. The result was increased energy and feeling of well-being. I used the Chanca *by itself* as directed for about 2 weeks... interestingly enough, on the evening of the 4th day or so, about a half hour after drinking some of the Chanca Piedra tea, I distinctively felt the sensation of small objects (like pea or marble-sized), at about the level of my solar plexus, rolling downward toward my stomach area. Placebo effect? I strongly think not; I was watching TV at the time, totally distracted, and the feeling was very noticable but not painful in the least.

Classic Ayurvedic medicine, interestingly enough, maintains that HL is caused by a liver weakness. Just a little food for thought here, I'm not saying that's necessarily correct, but there is a symbiosis between Ayurvedic belief regarding HL, and the subject of the liver which I'm introducing to everyone here.

4) Elevated copper intake through drinking water. This is one of the most common reasons. I started drinking bottled water just to make sure this was not a factor. Apparently copper pipes (esp. old ones) can leach copper into the drinking water. Filtered water pitchers help with this, or you can just drink bottled water. To test your own home's drinking water can be rather expensive but it would provide concrete proof of the source of the problem.

How does one get the proper zinc/copper level back in balance?

First off, taking zinc supplements should not be a problem with anyone... zinc toxicity levels are so high that one would have to consume many, many times the US RDA level. Zinc Glucanate is the most commonly available type of zinc, but there are Zinc Picolinate and a few others.

http://www.mindspring.com/~bupper1/index.html

The above URL has info on zinc sulfate, another form, which a guy used topically with vitamin B6. There was also talk of a doc prescribing zinc sulfate (consumed) for the treatment of enlarged prostate (hmmmmmm....)

Clearly there is a connection to zinc/copper levels, and hair. Low copper can also cause HL, but this is seldom the case, esp. with males.

High Copper --> Decreased Zinc --> Decreased absorbtion of B vitamins and low zinc levels in skin and hair follicle leading to inability of follicle to make its own protein --> aggravated hair loss = could be the reason some guys lose hair so quickly. I'm not saying there isn't a genetic flaw that is the source of the problem, BUT there are environmental factors and zinc/copper imbalance is one! :)

To correct this bodily imbalance (if it exists, and not cause harm if it DOESN'T exist): one should first try to avoid anything in one's working or living environment that could be leading to higher copper levels in the body. This may involve drinking filtered/bottled water, foods high in copper, etc. Next, a zinc supplement of some sort. I have always used zinc glucanate, first 50mg every day, now 50mg every other day, always with food as zinc can upset an empty stomach.

My personal results after using Chanca Piedra, drinking bottled water, and taking zinc regularly, have been reduced fallout, better scalp health (less dandruff -- high copper/low zinc can also lead to exzema and other bad scalp conditions), and generally higher energy levels as well as better digestion. This has let me know I've been doing the right thing.

Recently I've also been consuming more veggies and fish; overall I'm in the best health I've been in in years.

I've been using the zinc sulfate/b6 combo in the form of a product called "Bioprotein", it's available thru the site

www.hairsite.net

But it's rather expensive. It's working for me, but I've been long looking for a cheaper zinc-related treatment and Waseda's suggestion may be it (thanks Waseda-san!).

Back to the subject of zinc oxide: it may help out by letting the scalp and follicles absorb something they've been sorely lacking in, especially if high copper is present: zinc. The oxygen in it, can't hurt, as organisms (read fungus, bacteria, etc.) can't exist well in an environment that's high in oxygen. Folliderm: Active Oxygen is a product I haven't used, but has oxygen in it, and (duh) the body cannot exist more than a few seconds without oxygen. It also is essential and can only benefit the skin and hair.

Is there a genetic root cause of HL? Almost definitely there is, although to my knowledge no one has found the 'smoking gun' gene that is responsible for it yet. Even then, the hormonal/environmental toxicity/"other" factors play a significant role as well; the fact that people have been able to regrow their hair using topicals/internals is proof positive that the genetic factor CAN BE overcome. Over the years, it's been drilled into everyone's head that MPB is genetic; the zinc/copper connection as it relates to it, especially hair fallout, has been long overlooked by most of the medical authorities IMO.

Well thanks for bearing with me, hope this sparks some intelligent discussion. Best of luck to all!

Tom

? for Waseda  -side effects

From: Colin
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 16:12:27
Remote Name: 209.204.88.190

Comments

Waseda, Thanks for posting the Souhakuhi study,I appreciate it and I'm sure all of the other readers of this forum do as well.I currently use Revivogen,which has zinc as an ingrediant and I woul;d like to try your zinc oxide treatment as well.However I've read that too much zinc can be detrimental towards hair growth and I'm wondering what degree of a reduction in the amount of zinc in your zinc oxide treatment would be neccessary in order to avoid any negative effects. Thanks Again, Colin

Re: ? for Waseda – side effects

From: waseda
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 19:38:08
Remote Name: 211.132.33.230

Comments

Luckily, we have very extreme but interesting data. Abstract 1 shows how much oral zinc is needed for perfect zinc deficient men to recover their hairs. As the amount of zinc in zinc sulfate is one third of the latter, 600mg of the latter means 200mg of zinc per day. The amount of 200mg zinc happens to be the upper risky limit of zinc intake. You may understand why normal safe level of oral zinc has not worked so much for hair regrowth so far, for example 25mg or 50mg per day.

Now let's suppose 2g of 30% topical zinc oxide cream treatment. As the zinc amount of zinc oxide is four fifths of the latter, it amounts to 480mg zinc. Zinc ion of zinc oxide is released in some acid water solution. Its mechanism is unexpectedly difficult. If you could observe the white color utterly disappering, the ionization would be perfect. Though unrealistic, suppose the degree of ionization is 50%. This is of course too high to be agreed by chemists. Thus zinc ion on your scalp is now 240mg.

According to study 2, minox with high concentrated alcohol penetrates mouse skin maximum 5-6% after 12 hours and penetration rate is almost linear. Though again unrealistic, 6% of all the 240mg zinc ion penetrates your skin for only one hour and the zinc amount you absorb is finally 14.4mg.

If you could absorb as much as 14.4mg zinc from your scalp, it might be said to be a great success, because zinc is known to concentrate aroung hair follicles once absorbed. Zinc is known to strongly stimulate IGF-1 production and such topical absorption of zinc means the virtual IGF-1 intracutanuous injection.

The above story may be the optimistic one. In fact absorption rate will be much lower.

Contrary to your anxiety, we want to take more zinc from topically including the zinc in Revivogen instead of oral intake. More concentrated locally to scalp follicles, more effective the zinc is.

If you fear for excessive zinc, you have only to decrease your zinc supplement. As for me, Restamin Kowa Cream happens to be 10% cream not 30%, I take puritan's pride cheleted zinc 25mg and 50mg alternatingly and has had no problem.

wasdea.

*************** 1. Obes Surg 1996 Feb;6(1):63-65

Reversal of Hair Loss following Vertical Gastroplasty when Treated with Zinc Sulphate.

Neve HJ, Bhatti WA, Soulsby C, Kincey J, Taylor TV

Research Psychologist, Department of Clinical Psychology, Gaskell House, Swinton Grove, Manchester, M13, UK.

[Record supplied by publisher]

BACKGROUND: Nutritional complications following surgery for morbid obesity include both vitamin and mineral deficiency. Severe cases of zinc deficiency can lead to alopecia, diarrhea, emotional disorders, weight loss, intercurrent infection, bullous-pustular dermatitis and hypogonadism in males. Hair loss may occur after vertical gastroplasty (VG). METHODS: Diffuse hair loss occurred in 47 out of 130 patients who underwent VG. All patients had been routinely advised to take a multivitamin supplement, but 47 developed hair loss despite taking the supplement. These patients were then prescribed Zinc Sulphate 200 mg three times a day. There was no alteration in the vitamin supplementation. RESULTS: Arrest of hair loss and regrowth occurred in all patients. However, five patients reported recurrence of hair loss after stopping zinc. This loss was reversed within 6 months of recommencing zinc 600 mg daily. Ten control patients had no hair loss after gastrointestinal surgery. CONCLUSION: Significant hair loss occurred in about one-third of patients after VG, and was reversed by zinc supplementation.

PMID: 10731253

2.Å@Shahanaz Tata, Gordon L. Flynn, and Norman D. Weiner, Penetration of Minoxidil from Ethanol/Propylene Glycol Solutions: Effect of Application Volume and Occlusion.

TO FISHY – How to make ??

From: lost in space
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 16:25:50
Remote Name: 152.163.197.81

Comments

I am new here and am interested in the treatment. Could you tell me how you use the zinc powder, boric acid, and other ingredients. I don't know how to mix them.

See patent 6103273 above

how long to use? – ok to use for more than 15 days ?

From: joey
Date: 09 Feb 2001
Time: 18:33:51
Remote Name: 142.194.53.187

Comments

hi ...this is very interesting with the zinc oxide. on the previouse post about the ingredients it said to use the mixture for 15 days. does anyone know if you can use it more than that or if you should?

Re: how long to use? – 15 days

From: fishy
Date: 10 Feb 2001
Time: 03:34:34
Remote Name: 205.188.200.28

Comments

this is what i plan on doing, 2 or 3 fifteen days periods, then seen at that time how things are going, after that probably go to 2 or 3 times a week,.....

Re: how long to use? – 15 days ?

From: waseda
Date: 10 Feb 2001
Time: 03:47:04
Remote Name: 211.132.37.132

Comments

Testimonials - tranlated post updated 

From: waseda
Date: 10 Feb 2001
Time: 04:02:39
Remote Name: 211.132.36.70

Comments

This is a post translated from http://faf.presen.to/bbs/doc/001422.html

(from Tsurai, 01/02/10 10:21:12)

Happily, I can see many posts saying generation of hair with Restamin Special ( note: Restamin Special means zinc oxide cream plus some acid), recently. I am one of them. New vellus hair generated after 2 weeks using of RestaminÅ@and it is smoothly growing after 2 and a half months now. Though not enough in its thickness, I feel it is growing at almost the same speed as normal hair in its length.

Zinc oxide powder - Joey & Waseda

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 11:06:50
Remote Name: 205.188.200.181

Comments

Joey or Waseda;

I need some advice here. I went to Osco drugs and bought both zinc oxide cream and boric acid powder. The cream is 40% (the only strength on the shelf), and is too thick to apply to my head. In fact, it looks like I painted my head white. Any clues on how to thin this stuff out so it will rub on with out the white residue being visible? Btw, I tried to cut it with water but was not succesful. Please help!!

Zinc oxide powder Re: Joey & Waseda

From: fishy
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:29:33
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

Zinc oxide powder Question for fishy

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 13:51:48
Remote Name: 142.25.99.239

Comments

Hey fishy, I have mixed up the powder formula as you have. One problem at that consistency it get dry in about minutes and there isn't going to be any absorbtion. Also after about three days the amount I made has turned into a solid clump of white crap. I don't want to keep adding the boric acid because that can't be too good for me. What are you finding on your side of the fence?

Zinc oxide - Re: Question for fishy

From: fishy
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:35:10
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

did you boil like it said?, what i have done is boil is like it said to do. and put it in a empty butter container with the lid on to keep it moist. my batch is like a white jell. when i put it on i put on a baseball cap so as not to dry it out to quickly. doing it that way it stays moist on my head for at least 20 or 30 mins. but the batch in the butter dish stays moist and doesn't clump on me ,, i haven't had that problem...i will continue to use, simply put this is helping my hair and i have growth, you have to rememember you didn't loose your hair over night so you won't get it back over night either....i am convinced this is helping... best of luck to who posted this question......regards fishy

Zinc % - Re: Question for fishy

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:55:52
Remote Name: 64.12.105.188

Comments

Hey Fishy;

What percentile of zinc are you using? 10%?

Zinc % - Re: Question for fishy

From: fishy
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:39:34
Remote Name: 64.12.102.157

Comments

i am using exactly at stated in original post by waseda 40g

Absorbic acid vs Boric acid

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 14:08:04
Remote Name: 158.252.208.46

Comments

What is the difference between using Boric acid and Absorbic acid? In the reponse to my post Waseda recommended using Absorbic. Also, what stores are you guys buying this stuff at if you are in the the US?

Thanks

boric acid - walgreens, zinc oxide- osco drug, corn starch-any  grocery store

From: fishy
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:37:09
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

hope this helps you

Corn Starch: Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 17:46:44
Remote Name: 63.183.9.104

Comments

What is the corn starch for?..in waseda's formula he does not mention corn starch..can someone respost the formula I am a little confused about the proper ingrediants. I was under the impression that it was just a zinc oxcide and absorbic/boric acid.

Thanks

RESPONSE – read Patent 6103273

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry for the trouble..

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 18:48:46
Remote Name: 158.252.240.57

Comments

OK..I got the diaper rash cream with Zinc Oxide 40% is that too high a concentration??..I also have absorbic acid. Should I be using boric acid? I read the patent but I am not good at the whole chemistry thing so if you could help me out with the proper method for preparation I would appreciate it. Also, how much of each should I use to make a single batch?

Thanks ..hopefully I will start to understand this stuff soon

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 19:16:38
Remote Name: 211.132.35.26

Comments

There are in fact various patterns of zinc concentration in zinc oxide creams in this world. As for me, only 10% cream (1-2g per application) has contiunued woriking. Your cream concentration seems to be very high and 0.5g or so may be effective. And boric acid is not necessarily required at first. Add half tea spoon of ascorbic acid to a glass of water. This is very rough concentration of acid solution, but it is sufficient. This solution must reserved in refrigerator not to deteriorate. Put your 0.5g of cream on a small dish and add 2 to 5ml of the ascorbic acid solution to it and mix them. It's the stuff you apply.

I think patent's advanced treatment could be easily done, after you get accustomed to handling the easy cream+ascorbic acid treatment

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:11:23
Remote Name: 158.252.240.8

Comments

You keep talking about things in grams. Are you weighing this before mixing? Do I need to buy a scale?

Thanks

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:46:07
Remote Name: 211.132.38.228

Comments

You need not buy new scale. You can easily convert as one ounce = about 30 grams. So 1g = 0.03Å@ounce

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 21:03:42
Remote Name: 158.252.240.8

Comments

aren't ounces still a measurement of weight

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 22:01:06
Remote Name: 211.132.35.39

Comments

Sorry for confusing. You meant whether one MUST measure the exact weight before mixing, did'nt you? So 0.5 grams might be difficult to measure witout balance.

The weight of almost gel-like or cream-like stuffs doesn't differ far from that of water. And 1 c.c of water = 1 g. Your volume of upper part of the first joint of little finger amounts to about 3cc-4cc.(for example 1.5cm diamater, 2.5cm length eauals 0.75*0.75*3.14*2.5=4.41 c.c, but the top shapes like dome and the volume is supposed to about 3-4c.c). Thus you can measure 1 gram of cream as the volume of one third of your upper part of the first joint of little finger at most. We often see the instruction of cream saying one volume to be used per treatment about half of your little finger. It means about 1.5g-2g or so and it will be adequate for most cases. Imagine how much you usually apply your shaving cream

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 23:23:42
Remote Name: 158.252.240.8

Comments

should the absorbic acid dissolve in the water? should we boil the mixture or do I put the absorbic acid in cold water?

thanks

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 15:24:42
Remote Name: 211.132.34.169

Comments

<<should we boil the mixture or do I put the absorbic acid in cold water? >>

As ascorbic acid dissolve in cold water very well and is weak at hot temperature, you should use cold water and shouldn't boil it

Re: scale,,, where bought and price

From: fishy
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:47:17
Remote Name: 64.12.102.157

Comments

When it comes to dry too fast unexpectedly...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:25:17
Remote Name: 211.132.38.193

Comments

1) When applied cream comes to dry earlier than you expected, you had better spray water over the dried surface and spread it again. If possible it is preferable the water being acid (for example ascorbid acid ar boric acid) solution. As Zn ion can penetrate the skin only if the area is wet, you can re-utilize the dried cream though getting wet within the time limit.

2) When the stored cream comes to dry, it can be melt with additional hot water. If the acid used is boric acid, it can be re-boiled with water, because boric acid is tough in hot temperature. If the acid used is ascorbic acid, you had better add lukewarm water

Waseda and others: zinc oxide mixing

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 19:47:42
Remote Name: 128.193.168.150

Comments

What i have done is mix the tube of 30% zinc oxide cream with a 4 oz bottle of licorice tincture (so there is alcohol) and add a half teaspoon of pure ascorbic acid as you have suggested (waseda). This mixes well - doesn't dry too fast - seems to be 'working' so far...

comments Waseda

Re: Waseda and others: zinc oxide mixing

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:48:12
Remote Name: 211.132.38.228

Comments

Excellent

Re: Waseda and others: zinc oxide mixing

From: Tom
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:59:57
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Interesting! It's very, very likely that the substance that is the most effective for your scalp and hair in this mixture, is the zinc oxide... the licorice tincture is probably augmenting the effects.

So do you mean to say you mixed the entire tube of zinc oxide product with the whole 4 oz's of licorice tincture, together with the ascorbic acid? If so, how much zinc oxide total did you use?

souhakuhi

From: shasmi
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 05:27:17
Remote Name: 195.92.67.219

Comments

To Waseda: Minox+zinc-oxide

From: Hairsinger
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 08:51:34
Remote Name: 130.238.9.120

Comments

Hi! This zinc-oxide thing seems promising, but I have a question regarding mixing the zinc-oxide composition with minoxidil. Do you think it might work? My thought was that the alcohol in the minox-solution might solve the zinc-oxide and make it easy to apply. It would be interesting to know what you think about it, or if I`m missing some important chemical property of zinc-oxide.

Thanks in advance

Re: To Waseda: Minox+zinc-oxide

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 15:20:19
Remote Name: 211.120.79.206

Comments

waseda please read/zinc – another source

From: william
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:14:37
Remote Name: 202.123.132.60

Comments

waseda i just found in a store a powder for called Balmex medicated plus baby powder.It has zinc oxide 10% and corn starch 86.9% what do you think of this and what would you mix with it to get the best results.Would i add a little zinc cream with this and absorbic acid.Could i mix it with azalic acid.What would be the best mix.

thank you,william

Re: waseda please read/zinc

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 16:36:44
Remote Name: 211.120.76.143

Comments

William, you found a very easy stuff to handle. You need not add zinc oxide because the zinc oxide is already sufficient. If I were you, I wouldn't boil, for it includes much corn starch. Boiling will solidify it and perhaps will be very sticky.

You guys are missing half of what the Zinc oxide theory is telling

From: Worried
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 13:51:24
Remote Name: 62.188.4.88

Comments

I mean ,by examining what is happening in Alopecia aerata where there is 100% regrowth form Zin oxide+starch+acid ..there must be some clear conclusions to that ! What do you think ???

Also here is a pretty guaranteed regimen to grow your hair back

From: Worried
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 13:58:44
Remote Name: 62.188.4.88

Comments

waseda, is this going to work? Mixing all ingredients

From: tk421
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 14:34:41
Remote Name: 132.206.171.50

Comments

I took the recipe you gave (from the patent I think): 500 mg water, 60 mg boric acid, 10 mg starch, and 40 mg zinc oxide powder, and asked my pharmacist to mix it. Then I will boil it for 20 minutes. Is this going to work? Is this the best way to do it? Why do people use a cream when they can do that? Seems simpler to me. Can I expect the solution to be too dry or pasty, or too liquid?

So many questions. Thanks for helping

Re: waseda, is this going to work?

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 16:20:03
Remote Name: 211.132.39.193

Comments

I think your 'mg' may be 'g'(grams). This is certainly the optimum treatment. Your stuff will more effective than normal non-boiled cream treatment according to one report where some comparison was done. And it will be not too dry.

Buying Boric acid + Zinc ox powder

From:
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 16:27:52
Remote Name: 157.95.211.50

Comments

A few questions for the group.

1. Is boric acid sold under another name? I could not find it at the drug store. Do I need to go to a specialty store?

2. When ordering zinc oxide powder from a pharm is there a special name for it?

Thanks           

RESPONSE: Walgreens Sells it.

Re: Boric acid

From: duragio
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 01:13:51
Remote Name: 209.239.213.10

Comments

I just found some boric acid at a local Sav-On Pharmacy under their own house brand so you might want to check it out if there's a store near you.

About the zinc oxide powder, I think any baby creams containing zinc oxide should do. Someone else might be able to let you know where to get some powder though

Mixing the ingrediants

From:
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 00:57:26
Remote Name: 158.252.211.56

Comments

I bought some Desitin diaper rash cream 20% zinc oxide. Prepared the absorbic acid/water solution...they do not mix well at all. Is this normal? It is almost like oil and water!...is this normal or am I doing something wrong? Also, what is the best way to wash this stuff off?

Thanks

Re: Mixing the ingrediants

From:
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 01:10:31
Remote Name: 211.120.78.57

Comments

Re zinc oxide – Where to Obtain in US

From: fishy
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 07:58:29
Remote Name: 205.188.197.152

Comments

this whole web page is worth the time to wonder through – zinc theories, and benefits of zinc

From: fishy
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 12:40:24
Remote Name: 152.163.206.206

Comments

http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=QBP&query=
%a2%3a%59%27%44%49%8a%93%b6%e5%87%16%39%ea%85%
95%d7%bf%09%fd%31%2a%8d%66%91%53%eb%93%ce%a2%bc%e
d%da%c9%f5%b5%fc%cf%d0%8d%4d%6b%b0%2d%f0%39%b6%7b
%f4%7c%f4%37%97%00%d0%24%b9%35%09%cb%94%ae%7b%f8%
93%3e%70%33%0d%25%7c%73,,,,, take the time to go to the related links and read some of the things it talks about as far as lack of zinc in the body,,, it is tittled -links to zinc for common cold articles and other interesting links. i beleive you will find this whole web page on zinc interesting to read........

Re: curious finding how zinc is a strong wound healing agent

From: fishy
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 11:35:13
Remote Name: 64.12.102.152

Comments

on above post when you get to the page directed, click to the home page ,, scroll down toward the bottom ,, there is a section labled warning zinc deficiencys- cause for modern illnesses,, in the article they mention about how zinc is a stron wound healing agent among other things

Re: curious finding how zinc is a strong wound healing agent

From: Chris
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 02:25:33
Remote Name: 203.9.148.1

Comments

Interesting information in this group has a picture emerging in my mind's eye.

Less oxygen in the air allowing micro-organisms to thrive, copper pipes in the water system leeching copper that competes with zinc, modern chemically treated tobacco taken in actively and passively which depletes zinc, zinc as a building block of collagen and a wound healer and zinc deficiency causing primary T-cell lymphocyte immune system dysfunction (failure to terminate incipient malignancies, viral and fungal infections).

All of the above are conducive to baldness and ill health.

Re: curious finding how zinc is a strong wound healing agent

From: Tom
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 06:55:11
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Your analogy makes sense.. something else to think about is the fact that our soils (by 'our' I mean America's -- but any soil that isn't "virgin" soil i.e. hasn't been touched by herbicides/pesticides this would be true of to varying extents) have over the years gradually been depleted of trace nutrients and minerals, leading to less zinc in our food (among other things). BTW silver is another one; the silver content in our soil at the turn of the century was decent, but practically nonexistent today. Silver is an antimicrobial as well; we can make up for this through the use of colloidal silver, which is an entirely different subject in itself. My father is in his late 60's, since introducing him to colloidal silver (one of alternative medicine's best-kept secrets IMO) he has been enjoying great health, absence of sickness even when people around him are very ill, and a general feeling of well-being he didn't have before. He's a cancer survivor, and it feels great to be able to help him out like that. Do a web search on colloidal silver if you're interested. Anyway...

I did read the account of one doctor who believed that most of America is borderline zinc deficient. An over-reliance on processed food (e.g. fast-food, junk food, etc.) can lead to a deficiency. Not to mention that junk/fast food contains chemical additives that mimic the role of hormones in the body, and some of it contains hormones/antibiotics as well such as the case of milk -- don't know about you Chris but here in the U.S. the FDA's loose standards have led to our milk basically being crap... that's why I'd advise anyone suffering from HL to eat dairy in extreme moderation, cut down on meat, and change their diet to include lots of green veggies, legumes, and fish (fish oil=excellent). Chow down on these at LEAST a couple times a week. Go easy on red meats. Probably the chief reason the cancer rate here is one in 3 is America's heavy consumption of meat (esp. red meat) and dairy combined with pathetic FDA regulations for both. If you don't believe me, feel free to do a web search on these subjects -- they'll verify what I'm saying. I can't say what the situation is like in Australia where you are Chris, only what we live in here in the U.S., hopefully your plight is better :)

If you look at the zinc content in food, you'll notice that the same food also have copper in them, this is God's way of combining the two in one food (example: peanuts/almonds) to complete the package, since your body does *need* copper as well, but it's [high] copper toxicity that we're talking about here. And of all the imbalances that can happen in the body, high copper leading to low zinc is one of the most serious; the range of symptoms is immense, and Wilson's disease is a condition where the body can't get rid of copper hence the toxicity. Do a search on the problems related to high copper/low zinc -- in severe cases, HL is a result. In theory, all that would be necessary to produce excessive hair fallout, then, would be deficiency *in the scalp* where the follicles are present.

To sum it up, the zinc oxide therapy IS NOT a 'shot-in-the- dark' approach -- it has SOLID SCIENCE and evidence backing it. I'll be getting mine in shortly, and for everyone already trying it, please keep updating the forum with your results!

Desetin as a source of zinc oxide

From: Z
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 20:25:14
Remote Name: 24.16.136.28

Comments

Hi all

Is anyone using Desetin as a source of zinc oxide? If so, are you mixing the cream per Waseda's instructions?

Thanks

Re: Desetin

From:
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 21:36:52
Remote Name: 63.39.139.36

Comments

I bought it yesterday but have not used it. It does not mix well at all! I am going to try another brand that is not so oily

Re: Destin might be unexpectedly oily. Please follow iap's instrucion.

From: waseda
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 23:05:33
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

zinc mixing + what is licorice herbal tincture ?

From: iap
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 22:42:16
Remote Name: 128.193.168.141

Comments

i have suggested the 30% xinc oxide cream from Margarite cosmetic in florida that and health store should be able to get - it mixes superbly with a licorice herbal tincture (so there is alcohol too) and then just add a half teaspoon or so of ascorbic acid as Waseda suggested - goes on easily with a large eye dropper - i leave it on all night with not problem -doesnt dry too fast - seems to be 'working'

Re: zinc mixing

From:
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 00:21:14
Remote Name: 63.39.139.36

Comments

what is licorice herbal tincture?..what are some substitues that can be bought at a REGULAR drug store? if not where can u get it?

Question for iap (was Re: zinc mixing)

From: Z
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 12:35:42
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Thanks for the information, iap.

I have three questions:

1) Is this the cream that you are using? http://www.vitawarehouse.com/catalog/detail.cfm?Item_No=412100

2) What is the brand of licorice tincture that you are using?

3) Do you empty the *entire* content of the tube into the licorice tincture bottle?

to Z etc

From: iap
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:16:26
Remote Name: 205.167.155.9

Comments

http://www.vitawarehouse.com/catalog/detail.cfm?Item_No=412100

yes that's the zinc oxide i'm using

Re: to Z etc

From:
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:20:57
Remote Name: 157.95.211.50

Comments

I cant find this tincture anywhere close to me. I have called the natural stores. Any recomendations? The Zinc Oxide cream and water mixture are not mixing at all. Because it is a Diaper reash cream they are all water resistant! How are you guys getting this stuff to mix? I am lost on this!

Thanks

Re: to Z etc

From: waseda
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 19:15:28
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

Comments

If you can't mix the cream with water anyhow, first apply acid solution, that is, hydrate your scalp with acid water solution, next apply the oily cream. Though the method seems to be curious, oily cream works as *occlusion* and it comes to be a kind of cover preventing the skin from drying.

In fact, as non-oily zinc oxide cream dries too fast, some users apply perilla oil as occlusion

to Z etc

From: iap
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:16:34
Remote Name: 205.167.155.9

Comments

http://www.vitawarehouse.com/catalog/detail.cfm?Item_No=412100

yes that's the zinc oxide i'm using...

Zinc oxide mixing redux

From: iap
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:13:55
Remote Name: 205.167.155.9

Comments

THe zinc oxide cream i use is 30% and is from Margarite cosmetics in Florida - it's about the consistancy of toothpaste and mixes extremely well. Any health food store or natural foods grocery story (like Wild Oats) that uses Tree of Life as a distributor (they are nationwide) should be able to get it since it is in their catalog.

I have been mixing it with a 2 oz tincture of licorice extract because Waseda mentioned earlier that the commercial japanese formulas use glycerrihiza acid which is from licorice - any herbal tincture should do - find an herb shop or health food store as this is quite common. I just add half a tsp. of straight ascorbic acid as Waseda has suggested

zinc oxide storage

From: shasmi
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 00:28:00
Remote Name: 195.92.194.20

Comments

could anyone please let me know where to keep zinc boric starch mix. is it ok at room temp or do you keep it in the fridge. cheers

Re: zinc oxide storage

From: fishy
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 03:33:52
Remote Name: 205.188.197.187

Comments

TESTIMONIALS Re: zinc oxide storage  answer on it's working

From: fishy
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:13:43
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

Waseda – delivering Zinc Oxide ?
What we are trying to accomplish with Zinc Oxide ?

From: a quick question
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 08:18:46
Remote Name: 64.12.105.31

Comments

I would like to say that I appreciate the time and patience and knowledge you have brought to this forum. I have one quick question. Are we trying to deliver the zinc oxide through the skin? If this is the only case, could we use another type of vehicle- like rogaine with the oxide cream? Are the acid formulations only for the purpose of delivering the zinc? Thanks in Advance, E-Dogg

Waseda – delivering Zinc Oxide ?
What we are trying to accomplish with Zinc Oxide ?

From: waseda
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 16:33:08
Remote Name: 211.132.38.233

Comments

This problem has been discussed many times.

If zinc oxide alone is applied, the amount of zinc ion absorbed per hour will be about 1.6-2mg or so on the 15 cm square area of scalp, calculated from one study(1). This amount is short of your one day zinc loss due to perspiration (1-2mg) plus one shot ejection (1mg).

Only acid water solution can easily segregate the zinc ion massively. If we want to segregate transition elements such as zinc, aluminium etc. from oxide through artificial way, it will take enormous energy. Big electric power is needed to make the final reduction from aluminium oxide to pure aluminium. So is the zinc oxide.

Thus, only one effective method to generate a lot of zinc ion from zinc oxide other than with big energy is to make the vehicle acid. Of course you can use Rogaine as vehicle, but you have to add some weak acid water solution to it or spray the acid solution after spreading, because Rogaine is a bit alkaline. Minox with azelaic acid or with Retin A is useful to that purpose as well.

***************

(1) Dermatologica 1990;180(1):36-9

Percutaneous absorption of zinc from zinc oxide applied topically to intact skin in man.

Agren MS

Department of Pathology, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linkoping, Sweden.

Here's the Zinc Oxide Recipe as posted by Waseda

From: Z
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 09:37:39
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Comments There are some version of treatments, but this is proverbly the simplest, easiest way. Only two stuffs needed.

1. Red Clover Rash Care Cream 4 oz : $5.28

http://www.nutritionblvd.com/398106.html

(or some baby cream including zinc oxide)

2. ASCORBIC ACID fine granular. Pure acid form vitamin C. 300 grams, $4.50. Code 118.1

https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi?product=Vitamins
&cart_id=2003479_6135

Never mind, FOUND it! (Re: Yet another question for Waseda)

From: Z
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 10:39:00
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Here's the formula if you are using the powder:

The stuff used for trials by the inventor is:

starch 10 (1.64%) boric acid 60 (9.84%) zinc oxide 40 (6.56%) water 500 (81.97%) total 610 (100%)

Mix them and boil stirring continuously for 20 minutes. After getting cool, spread it on the target scalp and wash it away after 25 minutes. Treatment duration time must be within 60 minutes per treatment. Apply once a day and 6 days per week for the first 2-3 months. If you can recognize some result, decrease the frequency per week for example 4 days, 3 days etc. and finally 2 days or one day per week. As for me, two days per week after 8 months, though I use the second (following) version.

Pants showed us the site to get ingredients: http://www.sciencealliance.com/

boric acid, reagent, $7.14/100g, corn starch, lab, $4.24/100g, zinc oxide, powder, lab, $5.80/100g.

Fishy showed boric acid 4 oz liquid at www.medichest.com.

Desitin POWDER

From: Z
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 10:42:21
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

It seems that Desitin has a zinc oxide powder which has corn starch already added to it.

TESTIMONIAL Re: To Fishy

From: fishy
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 16:26:21
Remote Name: 205.188.197.189

Comments

Question to those using zinc oxide/boric/starch mixture
Consistency

From: diesel
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 18:22:44
Remote Name: 205.188.200.27

Comments

Just made my first batch today. Can anyone tell me what the consistency of their batch is like. Mine is the consistency of a milky creme. It has a grainy texture to it. Is this correct or should it have a thicker consistency? Looks like watered down creme. Is the griny texture normal or should the contents have dissolved? This was prepared by boiling

Re: Question to those using zinc oxide/boric/starch mixture

From:
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 18:25:32
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

If it looks as though you've been wanking all day long and saving it in a jar, you're there

Re: Question to those using zinc oxide/boric/starch mixture

From: fishy
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 03:33:19
Remote Name: 205.188.200.26

Comments

Z: licorice tincture

From: iap
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 19:10:08
Remote Name: 128.193.168.144

Comments

Waseda: Shedding phase from Zinc Oxide treatment?

From: baldilocks
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 11:33:08
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

Waseda,

After growing those hairs on your scalp, have you to date encountered a shedding phase. As is often reported with minoxidil and propecia a shedding phase results in which the newly grown haris drop out to be later replaced, so for a while one appears balder.

Has that happened to you or anybody else on this treatment?

Thanks

Re: Waseda: Shedding phase from Zinc Oxide treatment?

From: waseda
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 15:36:07
Remote Name: 211.132.32.88

Comments

WASEDA? Another application question

From: yoyo
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 13:48:39
Remote Name: 152.163.205.69

Comments

i have purchased a cream of zinc oxide , and purchased ascorbic acid. am i supposed toabout a half of a teaspoon full in a cup of water and refrigerate. when i go to apply it , do i put about 2ML of the ascorbic acid mixture on the effected area , and then apply the zinc. is this correct. also, can boric acid take the place of ascorbic acid in the water solution. thanks

Re: WASEDA?

From: waseda
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 15:48:11
Remote Name: 211.132.39.201

Comments

Only if the cream is too oily to dissolve with water, apply ascorbic acid water solution first. But, if the cream can be easily dissolved, *MIX* the cream with ascorbic acid water solution on some adequate small dish first and apply the muddy soft cream.

question to Fishy – Zinc oxide cream vs powder

From: imdone
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 14:01:49
Remote Name: 152.163.205.69

Comments

i have bought the zinc oxide cream. it is a very thick cream, and when applied it is very hard to wash off. like a petroleum jelly consistency. is this the right stuff

Re: question to Fishy - Zinc oxide cream vs powder

From: fishy
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 03:23:21
Remote Name: 205.188.197.163

Comments

Permanent solution of zinc oxide- questions for Mr. Waseda

From: simon
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 22:43:10
Remote Name: 212.138.47.24

Comments

Is there any way of making a permanent solution of zinc oxide and absorbic acid that does not require refrigeration?

What is the soulibility of zinc oxide in water? (I tried making a solution of zinc oxide and absorbic acid in water but I ended up with a creamy preicipitate

Re: Permanent solution of zinc oxide- questions for Mr. Waseda

From: waseda
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 23:45:40
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

Comments

Unluckily, zinc oxide is a typical oxide which is less soluble in water and ascorbic acid is a typical acid which is prone to be oxidated in high temperature. In addition, if you add starch, the stuff is inclined to decay.

To Waseda: adding copper to the treatment

From: Tony
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 23:43:41
Remote Name: 212.138.47.21

Comments

According to some research, copper ions inhibit both type I and type II 5-alpha reductase enzymes, wheras zinc ions only inhibit one type. Which leads us to the following question:

What are your thoughts on adding copper to the mixture and what would be the best way to do this?

copper is an important nutrient for normal hair growth. I've also heard of research that indicates that incresing levels of zinc in the body, decreases the levels of copper. If this is so, could the zinc oxide treatment discussed in this forum be counterproductive by decreasing copper levels

Re: To Waseda: adding copper to the treatment

From: waseda
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 08:02:05
Remote Name: 211.132.39.129

Comments

The relation between zinc level and copper level in our body is certainly important as you correctly indicate. While the risky amount of zinc is relatively high, that of copper is very low (9mg/day or so), and we must take care when we take additional copper. As ionization tendency of zinc is larger than that of copper, copper (for example copper peptide as in Folligen) will be kept out by zinc, if both are contained in the same solution or applied topically at the same time. So, we must take a few additional copper (maybe 1-2mg per day) orally. In general, it is said that additional 10mg of zinc demands additional 1mg of copper and 1-2mg of oral copper will be estimated to be sufficient.

what is the function of the ascorbic acid in this treatment?

From: Bob
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 23:54:11
Remote Name: 212.138.47.22

Comments

what is the function of ascorbic acid in this treatment?

Re: what is the function of the ascorbic acid in this treatment?

From: waseda
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 08:23:00
Remote Name: 211.13.141.128

Comments

Ascorbic acid works as an ionizer of zinc instead of boric acid. Perhaps boric acid is stronger than a. acid, but a.acid is less irritative and in addition, works as HGF inducer.

Through some trials and errors, we found weak acid is absolutely needed for the treatment and the ascorbic acid is the safe and potent one of such acids

Re: what is the function of the ascorbic acid in this treatment?

From: Kiefer
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 23:46:57
Remote Name: 157.24.105.109

Comments

Waseda (please) – the ideal formula

From: Pepto
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 08:34:32
Remote Name: 213.1.64.153

Comments

Hi Waseda,

Is this the best way to make/formulate or to get it made, the Zinc Oxide treatment: (it is important I know as a pharmacy may make it so it is available to the mass public)

starch 10g, boric acid (powder) 60g, zinc oxide (powder) 40g, water 500g (500ml)

Or would you change anything ie. have asorbic acid instead of boric acid.

Should grape seed extract also be included in this formula?

Do u apply minoxidil first, then zinc oxide which u leave on for half an hour and then does it have to be washed off with shampoo or is water ok?

Thank you

Re: Waseda (please)

From: waseda
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 09:21:17
Remote Name: 211.120.77.214

Comments

Hi, Pepto. <<starch 10g, boric acid (powder) 60g, zinc oxide (powder) 40g, water 500g (500ml) >>

This is just the exact original treatment. And you have only to boil it for 20 minutes.

Once you can prepare the above ingredients, you need not add ascorbic acid and need not change boric acid.

Grape seed extract is not included in this formula. It's another topic.

Question to waseda - Refrigerate

From: diesel
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 14:55:52
Remote Name: 152.163.204.189

Comments

Should the zinc oxide/boric acid/corn starch boiled mixture be stored in the refrigerator to avoid decay or can it be left in a closed container at room temperature? Thank you

Re: Question to waseda - Refrigerate

From: fishy
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 17:33:07
Remote Name: 152.163.206.208

Comments

HELP - This recipe didn't work -or i didn't do it right, suggestions? – tiny white clumps / Xandrox

From:
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 16:59:29
Remote Name: 63.203.76.136

Comments

Hi,

zinc oxide waseda please read – another formula

From: william
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 17:05:31
Remote Name: 202.123.132.55

Comments

waseda what about this regimin crushed 50 miligrams of zinc oxide tablets absorbic acid water pumkin seed oil azalic acid this mixes real easy in just hot water not boiling.william

Re: zinc oxide waseda please read another formula

From: waseda
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 02:26:54
Remote Name: 211.120.79.225

Comments

William, your method is very interesing and looks like easy.

for u.k. posters

From: shasmi
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 23:57:29
Remote Name: 195.92.194.19

Comments

if anyone in the U.K. is looking to make zinc oxide, corn starch in this country is called corn flour(45p for 250g from sainsbury`s).zinc oxide powder i got from the chemist, they ordered and came the next day(4.99 500g).and boric acid was 99p for 100g.there you go

Re: for u.k. posters

From:
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 03:34:57
Remote Name: 62.252.64.4

Comments

Hey, thanks for that info man, did the chemist also get in the boric acid for you?

Re: for u.k. posters

From: shasmi
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 04:28:53
Remote Name: 195.92.194.20

Comments

Zinc Oxide cream - A UK source

From: Jez
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 12:18:02
Remote Name: 62.252.96.4

Comments

Hi everyone. I've found a UK source for a Zinc oxide cream if anyone's interested:

www.eco-babes.co.uk/

Go to the creams section, and it's called Red Clover cream.

Good luck everyone,

Jez

to waseda Folligen ? –copper intake

From: shasmi
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 01:45:55
Remote Name: 195.92.194.17

Comments

waseda, i posted to you a while back about ingredients for souhakuhi if you remember, i know you get alot of posts. anyway i went over to the next town to a little chinese herbalists and got all the ingredients exept one, zi su ye(perilla leaf). when the herbalist looked at the list i gave, she asked me to pronounce zi su ye which was a bit unusual me being english and she chinese. what they gave me is not perilla leafs its more like bark. not to worry i`ll get the right stuff next time. i did manage to get red lithospermum root like you said, thankyou. i`ve one question, i read the previous posts on zinc and copper. i take 25mg of zinc orally each day and use folligen and the zinc oxide(the abstract version) treaments at oppisite ends of the day, my scalp has never felt so better. is this about right or should i take some copper internally. thanks for your time again. shasmi

Re: to waseda

From: waseda
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 02:33:57
Remote Name: 211.132.35.231

Comments

This is my honest feeling: Is Folligen really good?? I once used much Folligen but had no result. I agree the copper peptide will be good for *skin* tissue, but I wonder too much copper may be harmful to hair growth. After noticing, I stopped using Folligen. Instead I have taken copper a little through oral supplement.

I speculate copper is required only for recovering the balance of zinc/copper. Strangely, my new hair growth started after stopping Folligen.

The fact is I often see good results on hair growth based on some forms of zinc compound, but I have never seen hair gowth based on some kinds of copper compound. If you have had a good result with Folligen, excuse me

Re: to waseda

From: Tom
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 09:25:11
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Most people get enough copper already, without modifying their diets. So chances are, you don't need to be concerned with taking a copper supplement. On the other hand, due to depleted soils here in the U.S. and abroad (to varying extents), the zinc content in the typical diet is minimal. And it is MUCH easier to become toxic (an excess of the metal) in copper than it is to become toxic with zinc. Zinc toxicity is very low compared to copper. And yes, too much copper is harmful to hair growth and can cause other skin problems in general -- dandruff, excema-like conditions, etc. You can do a web search on this kind of information and verify it if you like.

I myself take 100mg zinc per day, maybe once a week or so take no zinc caplet, and also take a b-vitamin complex (B vitamins are essential) and a multi-enzyme with each meal.

Dragon's Blood: An optional adjunct to ZnO treatment

From: Tom
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 07:03:06
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Hello guys,

I figured the "Dragon's Blood" in the subject header would get your attention :)

For about the past 3 weeks, I've been using a strong wound-healing resin topically called 'Sangre De Drago' (translated: Blood of the Dragon). It is indigenous to South America and is actually a sap extracted from a tree, which contains wound-healing & anti-oxidant properties among others. I gave it a try because the data on it said it contained proanthocyanadins -- the same antioxidant substance included in the Japanese product which is (I believe) in Waseda's regimen as well. Unfortunately that product is not available outside of Japan; that's why Sangre De Drago (I'll abbreviate it "SDD" here) caught my eye.

First off, some URL's, but these by no means are exhaustive on the subject:

http://www.ashaninka.com/sangre.htm (You can purchase it at the site above

http://www.biopark.org/sangrededrago.html (Notice this botanical is also known by other names)

http://rain-tree.com/sangre.htm (More info)

Results: Bear in mind that I've only been using it a short time... the best I can say about it is the fact that is has completely and totally KNOCKED OUT my dandruff and flaking problems. Even using Nizoral 2% every other day, in rotation with Neways shampoo (http://www.neways.com/), it took care of about 90% of my dandruff; however using SDD it eliminated completely the dandruff problems I had -- to give it an educated guess as to why, I'd say probably SDD's anti-inflammatory properties. There has been general thickening and strengthening of the hair all over my head, especially in back. As far as regrowth, it's hard to tell.

SDD is used by the people of South America to treat exzema skin conditions, and to heal wounds quickly, among other things. It can be used internally as well as topically.

The Good: SDD is *cheap*. Especially if you will be using it topically; this brings me to a very important point: if you decide to use it, DILUTE IT. This is extremely important! Don't put it just straight on your head -- it's a thick sap that forms a kind of coating on your skin. Dilute it AT LEAST by 50% with distilled water. Now, SDD is a reddish-colored substance (hence its name), and I have brown hair myself; anyone with blonde or light-colored hair I cannot say with any certainty if it will stain their hair or not. The more diluted the SDD in water, the better -- but obviously this decreases its efficacy as well when you do this. But it is a powerful skin healer full of antioxidants, a fact borne out by my scalp's really healthy condition after using it. Another good quality is that if you decide to buy it, use it topically, and decide for any reason that it's not for you, you can use it internally after putting a few drops in water. So, it wouldn't be wasted money. Given the proanthocyanadins in it, which are proven hair-growth stimulators, you should experience at last a modicum of success when using it.

What makes it effective fighting HL? Well, the best I can theorize as to why it works, are the following properties: 1) It's an astringent; many home remedies for HL have this property. Example: Rosemary. 2) Wound-healing properties -- note the taspine in it. This is exceptionally good stuff for general skin healing, which by default can only be good for the hair. 3) Anti-bacterial AND even anti-viral properties, for those nasty bacteria that contribute to HL-related dandruff/scaling/flaking 4) Anti-oxidant. These have been shown to stimulate growth, ex: grape seed extract. 5) Anti-inflammatory. For combatting the immune reaction that plays a significant and under-rated role in the HL problem.

The Bad: It's awkward to use. Before bedtime is really the only option as far as when to apply it, because of the thickness of the SDD; this is far from a 'no muss no fuss' scalp treatment. Again, you *must* dilute it in water, or it will be extremely difficult to wash out the next morning. Put an old towel or something over the pillow of your bed, because the SDD tends to badly stain (much like grape juice or blood) anything it comes into contact with. I really can't emphasize this enough.

In your shampoo regimen, make sure you include a good cleanser to use the morning after SDD. I use Neways shampoo which I find it just excellent all-around. It slows hair fallout, and deep-cleans while being very gentle on the scalp (sodium lauryl sulfate-free).

Not much more to say on Dragon's Blood. I would recommend giving it a try; Waseda's current regimen if I'm not mistaken does include the Japanese product that contains proanthocyanadins, and using SDD would give you what that particular product contains, and probably more. It has great antioxidant activity, and trust me brothers, I had tried everything -- EVERYTHING -- to get rid of my dandruff. Nothing did it completely, before I used SDD. If it can work for me, the ultimate nonresponder, it should be able to help most other folks as well. It's cheap, and if you don