Quality Assurance Program for Hair Transplant & Hair Replacement

SITE INDEX

Waseda's Regimen
Summary of Zinc Oxide Posts

SPONSORS

Re: How much hair growth can we expect from zinc oxide?

From: waseda
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 11:56:29
Remote Name: 211.132.39.111

Comments

Clis, have you experienced new vellus hairs within a few weeks after your first application of minox? And did minox alone make your vellus hair terminal?

Re: waseda please read/zinc william read

From: baldilocks
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 17:23:31
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

Fishy,

I gather that you are using the boric acid, Zinc Oxide powder formulation. Is there a reason to go this route rather than using Zinc Oxide cream, which seems easier to make?

The only consideration Ihave is leaving it on your scalp for 1 hr. A lot of Zinc can get absorbed through the skin. Certainly, it'll inhibit DHT, but I wonder if there are side effects from absorbing that much Zinc over a long period of time.

baldilocks

Re: waseda please read/zinc baldilocks

From: fishy
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 18:32:58
Remote Name: 152.163.206.198

Comments

correct i use the boric acid and zinc oxide and starch like patent posted by waseda, you may be right on the 1 hr being a bit to long to have it on.. trust me on this baldilocks ,, it is very easy to make. time will be the judge, but each day i do feel more life to my hair....

Re: to fishey

From:
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 08:08:53
Remote Name: 62.252.64.4

Comments

fishey where did you get the boric acid and zinc oxide from???

thanks man

Re: to fishey answer from fishy

From: fishy
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 14:46:04
Remote Name: 205.188.200.27

Comments

i got the boric acid at walgreens, maybe you can order from there web page, and the zinc oxide powder i had osco drug special order for me,, cost of boric acid was 5.99 dollars for 12 oz. and the zinc oxide was 22.50 dollars for 16 oz. corn starch was 1.99 dollar for 16 oz. a little about since using it. at work when i would look at my reflection on a dark computor screen i could see a shinny forehead and well the top of my head was easliy seen. started using jan.26 since then to now, i look at reflection and see a shinny forehead but you can not see a shinny scalp, but mind you if i bend my head down in front of a mirror you can still see my scalp, but you can for sure see hair grown,, and looking straight at the mirror no doubt a brown ,, not baby hair stuff but a brown haze growth is starting to appear,,, this is the truth, i know its starting to work for me. for how long, time will tell.. i strongly suggest to anyone, use the formula posted by the good man waseda. the zinc oxide cream is hard to work with, plus think of this you have a tube say 30% zinc oxide and the tube contains 10 grams then isn't 70% of the tube something other than zinc oxide, .....i've have tried many things. read this forum about this guy and that guy,, wondering when this will come out or that will come out. i read when waseda posted his comments, and i really beleived what he said, maybe thats the key to growth as well to beleive. total cost of treatment is far less than even rogain,, so figured what do i have to loose,, more hair ???... think about the various forms of diebetics and i believe there are that many reasons why there is hairloss and why some treatments work on some and not others. each person may have to search till they find there own cure... but this is worth a try...

waseda/fishy please  read zinc

From: william
Date: 07 Feb 2001
Time: 20:03:24
Remote Name: 202.123.132.40

Comments

one more time in simple recipe measurements please.can i just use the zinc cream-asorbic acid-and corn starch with out the mulberry bark.what kind of alcohol to cut the oily zinc is good the zinc just seperated and did not blend together.could you use salitck acid also.please one more time how to mix and prepare.sorry for all this.william

Patent  6,103,273

Pharmaceutical composition comprising starch, a compound comprising boron, a compound comprising zinc, and water, and a method of using same to encourage hair growth

Abstract

A pharmaceutical composition for the treatment of alopecia areata and male pattern baldness is preferably made from boric acid, zinc oxide, and starch. The method of the present invention comprises applying the pharmaceutical composition of the present invention to a person's scalp. The pharmaceutical composition of the present invention can comprise 10 parts by weight starch, 60 parts by weight boric acid, 40 parts by weight zinc oxide, and 500 parts by weight water. The dry ingredients (starch, boric acid, and zinc oxide) are mixed together, then the water is added. The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, stirring continuously. The mixture will thicken, become smooth, and the final consistency will have minute lumps within the liquid. Preferably, before the pharmaceutical composition of the present invention is applied to the scalp, the bald spots are scrubbed with either pure lamb's wool or a soft-bristled brush made of animal hair. This cleanses the residue from the skin. The pharmaceutical composition of the present invention is then rubbed on the bald spots. After 25 minutes, the scalp is rinsed, removing any excess composition. This procedure is repeated daily for 15 days. The inventor has found that it usually takes three-fifteen days for pores to open and fifteen days to three months for fuzzy hair to appear. The inventor has found that it takes approximately one to six months for hair to grow to the point where it appears normal.

Where to get ingredients (Zinc Oxide powder, etc)

From: Tom
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 08:09:58
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Just a question to Waseda or anyone else who can answer this -- is there a good place on the 'net to purchase zinc oxide powder and ascorbic acid powder? I believe Waseda mentioned this was the simplest version of the treatment, sans boric acid. It's undoubtedly the zinc oxide in it that produces the desired effects anyway. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Tom

Easiest version of zinc oxide treatment (repost)

From: wadeda
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 09:03:22
Remote Name: 211.132.33.153

Comments

This is a revised copy of forum 17.

There are some versions of treatments, but this is probably the simplest, easiest way. Only two stuffs needed.

1. Red Clover Rash Care Cream 4 oz : $5.28

http://www.nutritionblvd.com/398106.html

(or some baby cream including zinc oxide10%-30%)

2. ASCORBIC ACID fine granular. Pure acid form vitamin C. 300 grams, $4.50. Code 118.1

https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi?product=Vitamins
&cart_id=2003479_6135

Prepare a glass of water(suppose it is 100ml) and add a half tea-spoon of Ascorbic acid powder(about 5g) into it and store the solution in the refrigerator. At the time of application, prepare a small dish, put 2g of the cream and add 2ml of the ascorbic acid water solution to it. Mix them and spread the half sticky, half liquid stuff on your target area. After 30minutes to 60minutes ( that is, after drying), wash it away. You had better apply the treatment once per day at first.

This MAY be the reason Zinc Oxide treatment is effective for some people, please read

From: Tom
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 09:42:58
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Hi everyone,

I started a little discussion on the HM forum awhile back regarding a Copper/Zinc connection to HL. The fact that there *is* a connection here involving Copper, Zinc, and HL, should not really be up to debate, as copper modulates hair growth. I'll try to keep this post brief, but give a few URL's for you folks to peruse should you want more info.

http://www.stophairloss.com/copperzinc.html http://www.seasilverhealth.com/deficiencies.html

The above 2 URLs give more info about the relationship of zinc to HL. It appears that an elevated level of copper in the body, leads to less zinc absorbtion, leading to zinc dificiency, which *can* lead to hair loss.

What are Zinc's roles in the body? Well for starters it is plentiful in the liver, skin, nails, and hair. Zinc is required for RNA/DNA synthesis, protein utilization, normalizing hormones (hmmmm...), amongst numerous other functions. It also allows the body's absorbtion of various B vitamins, which are essential for hair.

Copper and zinc form a vital ratio in the body; they balance each other out. Optimally a high level of zinc and low level of copper are what's needed.

Hair mineral analysis, or the "hair test", or tissue mineral analysis, all refer to the same thing: a lock of hair is taken from the patient's scalp, analyzed, and various information about toxicity and mineral levels in the body can be obtained; I had one several months ago, since then I have found that the whole hair test is dubious at best... and information has surfaced that it's not all that accurate. Still, mine told me that I was high (extremely high) in copper. Even in light of the new information surfacing that has cast doubt on the hair mineral analysis, I still strongly believe I am high in copper since I looked up the symtoms for copper toxicity, and I have every single one of them. Besides HL, high copper and/or low zinc (and high copper intakes lead to low zinc) lead to many other problems within the body, relating to energy level, sexual disfunction (hmmmm, there has been a long-held connection between HL and prostate problems), and others. High copper and/or low zinc levels in the body are very bad, long-term... it affects metabolism since the body's ability to utilize protein (the building blocks of life energy) is affected. Zinc is required by the body in abundance and is extremely important; a deficit will adversely affect it. Not too many people have normal levels of copper and low zinc; zinc level is adequate in the typical American diet (which is another discussion in itself). The problem usually arises when excess copper is taken in.

How does this occur? 1) Inadequately low zinc intake for a prolonged period of time

2) An individual is born with high copper, and this affects their copper/zinc profile for the rest of their life unless they take steps to get it back into balance. Can occur when the mother is high in copper; this excess is then passed on to the child.

3) Sluggish liver/gallbladder function. The liver and gallbladder eliminate excess copper from the body; the inability of the body to do this is called Wilson's Disease, the problems caused by this disease include -- you guessed it -- hair loss. The liver is the most important organ in the body right behind the heart and the brain, ironic since most people don't ever think about their liver unless it is having problems such as hepatitis, etc. The liver purifies the blood of toxins and regulates literally hundreds of bodily processes since it is the chemical factory of the body. Curious, I read about the liver and the chief reason the liver can be sluggish: the presence of stones (gallstones). Can stones be flushed out and eliminated from the liver without surgery? There is scientific evidence that the answer is 'yes'. I researched this as well and found two ways to flush out anything in the liver bile ducts that may be inhibiting proper bile flow and liver function in general. They are

a) The first is a homeopathic remedy that has been around for centuries. The following URLs detail it, but you can do a web search on the words "+liver", "+gallbladder", and "+flush" on northernlight.com to see as much info on it as you want.

http://www.joyfullivingservices.com/gallbladderflush.html http://www.drugfreehelp.com/uzherbs/diet/Gallbladder.htm

This forcefully flushes out stagnant bile, stones, etc. from the liver bile ducts, and allows them to be passed (without discomfort) to the stool.

b) The second method involves the use of a botanical, called Chanca Piedra (also called Quebra Piedra, or Royal Break-Stone). "Chanca Piedra" means "shatter stone" and this is a botanical indigenous to South America where it is used for this purpose. It is also anti-viral, and has many other beneficial properties.

http://www.wholeworldbotanicals.com/chanca.html http://www.blackherbals.com/Rainforest_Products-Chanca_Piedra.htm

I tried Chanca Piedra amongst a couple other herbal supplements. The result was increased energy and feeling of well-being. I used the Chanca *by itself* as directed for about 2 weeks... interestingly enough, on the evening of the 4th day or so, about a half hour after drinking some of the Chanca Piedra tea, I distinctively felt the sensation of small objects (like pea or marble-sized), at about the level of my solar plexus, rolling downward toward my stomach area. Placebo effect? I strongly think not; I was watching TV at the time, totally distracted, and the feeling was very noticable but not painful in the least.

Classic Ayurvedic medicine, interestingly enough, maintains that HL is caused by a liver weakness. Just a little food for thought here, I'm not saying that's necessarily correct, but there is a symbiosis between Ayurvedic belief regarding HL, and the subject of the liver which I'm introducing to everyone here.

4) Elevated copper intake through drinking water. This is one of the most common reasons. I started drinking bottled water just to make sure this was not a factor. Apparently copper pipes (esp. old ones) can leach copper into the drinking water. Filtered water pitchers help with this, or you can just drink bottled water. To test your own home's drinking water can be rather expensive but it would provide concrete proof of the source of the problem.

How does one get the proper zinc/copper level back in balance?

First off, taking zinc supplements should not be a problem with anyone... zinc toxicity levels are so high that one would have to consume many, many times the US RDA level. Zinc Glucanate is the most commonly available type of zinc, but there are Zinc Picolinate and a few others.

http://www.mindspring.com/~bupper1/index.html

The above URL has info on zinc sulfate, another form, which a guy used topically with vitamin B6. There was also talk of a doc prescribing zinc sulfate (consumed) for the treatment of enlarged prostate (hmmmmmm....)

Clearly there is a connection to zinc/copper levels, and hair. Low copper can also cause HL, but this is seldom the case, esp. with males.

High Copper --> Decreased Zinc --> Decreased absorbtion of B vitamins and low zinc levels in skin and hair follicle leading to inability of follicle to make its own protein --> aggravated hair loss = could be the reason some guys lose hair so quickly. I'm not saying there isn't a genetic flaw that is the source of the problem, BUT there are environmental factors and zinc/copper imbalance is one! :)

To correct this bodily imbalance (if it exists, and not cause harm if it DOESN'T exist): one should first try to avoid anything in one's working or living environment that could be leading to higher copper levels in the body. This may involve drinking filtered/bottled water, foods high in copper, etc. Next, a zinc supplement of some sort. I have always used zinc glucanate, first 50mg every day, now 50mg every other day, always with food as zinc can upset an empty stomach.

My personal results after using Chanca Piedra, drinking bottled water, and taking zinc regularly, have been reduced fallout, better scalp health (less dandruff -- high copper/low zinc can also lead to exzema and other bad scalp conditions), and generally higher energy levels as well as better digestion. This has let me know I've been doing the right thing.

Recently I've also been consuming more veggies and fish; overall I'm in the best health I've been in in years.

I've been using the zinc sulfate/b6 combo in the form of a product called "Bioprotein", it's available thru the site

www.hairsite.net

But it's rather expensive. It's working for me, but I've been long looking for a cheaper zinc-related treatment and Waseda's suggestion may be it (thanks Waseda-san!).

Back to the subject of zinc oxide: it may help out by letting the scalp and follicles absorb something they've been sorely lacking in, especially if high copper is present: zinc. The oxygen in it, can't hurt, as organisms (read fungus, bacteria, etc.) can't exist well in an environment that's high in oxygen. Folliderm: Active Oxygen is a product I haven't used, but has oxygen in it, and (duh) the body cannot exist more than a few seconds without oxygen. It also is essential and can only benefit the skin and hair.

Is there a genetic root cause of HL? Almost definitely there is, although to my knowledge no one has found the 'smoking gun' gene that is responsible for it yet. Even then, the hormonal/environmental toxicity/"other" factors play a significant role as well; the fact that people have been able to regrow their hair using topicals/internals is proof positive that the genetic factor CAN BE overcome. Over the years, it's been drilled into everyone's head that MPB is genetic; the zinc/copper connection as it relates to it, especially hair fallout, has been long overlooked by most of the medical authorities IMO.

Well thanks for bearing with me, hope this sparks some intelligent discussion. Best of luck to all!

Tom

? for Waseda  -side effects

From: Colin
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 16:12:27
Remote Name: 209.204.88.190

Comments

Waseda, Thanks for posting the Souhakuhi study,I appreciate it and I'm sure all of the other readers of this forum do as well.I currently use Revivogen,which has zinc as an ingrediant and I woul;d like to try your zinc oxide treatment as well.However I've read that too much zinc can be detrimental towards hair growth and I'm wondering what degree of a reduction in the amount of zinc in your zinc oxide treatment would be neccessary in order to avoid any negative effects. Thanks Again, Colin

Re: ? for Waseda – side effects

From: waseda
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 19:38:08
Remote Name: 211.132.33.230

Comments

Luckily, we have very extreme but interesting data. Abstract 1 shows how much oral zinc is needed for perfect zinc deficient men to recover their hairs. As the amount of zinc in zinc sulfate is one third of the latter, 600mg of the latter means 200mg of zinc per day. The amount of 200mg zinc happens to be the upper risky limit of zinc intake. You may understand why normal safe level of oral zinc has not worked so much for hair regrowth so far, for example 25mg or 50mg per day.

Now let's suppose 2g of 30% topical zinc oxide cream treatment. As the zinc amount of zinc oxide is four fifths of the latter, it amounts to 480mg zinc. Zinc ion of zinc oxide is released in some acid water solution. Its mechanism is unexpectedly difficult. If you could observe the white color utterly disappering, the ionization would be perfect. Though unrealistic, suppose the degree of ionization is 50%. This is of course too high to be agreed by chemists. Thus zinc ion on your scalp is now 240mg.

According to study 2, minox with high concentrated alcohol penetrates mouse skin maximum 5-6% after 12 hours and penetration rate is almost linear. Though again unrealistic, 6% of all the 240mg zinc ion penetrates your skin for only one hour and the zinc amount you absorb is finally 14.4mg.

If you could absorb as much as 14.4mg zinc from your scalp, it might be said to be a great success, because zinc is known to concentrate aroung hair follicles once absorbed. Zinc is known to strongly stimulate IGF-1 production and such topical absorption of zinc means the virtual IGF-1 intracutanuous injection.

The above story may be the optimistic one. In fact absorption rate will be much lower.

Contrary to your anxiety, we want to take more zinc from topically including the zinc in Revivogen instead of oral intake. More concentrated locally to scalp follicles, more effective the zinc is.

If you fear for excessive zinc, you have only to decrease your zinc supplement. As for me, Restamin Kowa Cream happens to be 10% cream not 30%, I take puritan's pride cheleted zinc 25mg and 50mg alternatingly and has had no problem.

wasdea.

*************** 1. Obes Surg 1996 Feb;6(1):63-65

Reversal of Hair Loss following Vertical Gastroplasty when Treated with Zinc Sulphate.

Neve HJ, Bhatti WA, Soulsby C, Kincey J, Taylor TV

Research Psychologist, Department of Clinical Psychology, Gaskell House, Swinton Grove, Manchester, M13, UK.

[Record supplied by publisher]

BACKGROUND: Nutritional complications following surgery for morbid obesity include both vitamin and mineral deficiency. Severe cases of zinc deficiency can lead to alopecia, diarrhea, emotional disorders, weight loss, intercurrent infection, bullous-pustular dermatitis and hypogonadism in males. Hair loss may occur after vertical gastroplasty (VG). METHODS: Diffuse hair loss occurred in 47 out of 130 patients who underwent VG. All patients had been routinely advised to take a multivitamin supplement, but 47 developed hair loss despite taking the supplement. These patients were then prescribed Zinc Sulphate 200 mg three times a day. There was no alteration in the vitamin supplementation. RESULTS: Arrest of hair loss and regrowth occurred in all patients. However, five patients reported recurrence of hair loss after stopping zinc. This loss was reversed within 6 months of recommencing zinc 600 mg daily. Ten control patients had no hair loss after gastrointestinal surgery. CONCLUSION: Significant hair loss occurred in about one-third of patients after VG, and was reversed by zinc supplementation.

PMID: 10731253

2.Å@Shahanaz Tata, Gordon L. Flynn, and Norman D. Weiner, Penetration of Minoxidil from Ethanol/Propylene Glycol Solutions: Effect of Application Volume and Occlusion.

TO FISHY – How to make ??

From: lost in space
Date: 08 Feb 2001
Time: 16:25:50
Remote Name: 152.163.197.81

Comments

I am new here and am interested in the treatment. Could you tell me how you use the zinc powder, boric acid, and other ingredients. I don't know how to mix them.

See patent 6103273 above

how long to use? – ok to use for more than 15 days ?

From: joey
Date: 09 Feb 2001
Time: 18:33:51
Remote Name: 142.194.53.187

Comments

hi ...this is very interesting with the zinc oxide. on the previouse post about the ingredients it said to use the mixture for 15 days. does anyone know if you can use it more than that or if you should?

Re: how long to use? – 15 days

From: fishy
Date: 10 Feb 2001
Time: 03:34:34
Remote Name: 205.188.200.28

Comments

this is what i plan on doing, 2 or 3 fifteen days periods, then seen at that time how things are going, after that probably go to 2 or 3 times a week,.....

Re: how long to use? – 15 days ?

From: waseda
Date: 10 Feb 2001
Time: 03:47:04
Remote Name: 211.132.37.132

Comments

Testimonials - tranlated post updated 

From: waseda
Date: 10 Feb 2001
Time: 04:02:39
Remote Name: 211.132.36.70

Comments

This is a post translated from http://faf.presen.to/bbs/doc/001422.html

(from Tsurai, 01/02/10 10:21:12)

Happily, I can see many posts saying generation of hair with Restamin Special ( note: Restamin Special means zinc oxide cream plus some acid), recently. I am one of them. New vellus hair generated after 2 weeks using of RestaminÅ@and it is smoothly growing after 2 and a half months now. Though not enough in its thickness, I feel it is growing at almost the same speed as normal hair in its length.

Zinc oxide powder - Joey & Waseda

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 11:06:50
Remote Name: 205.188.200.181

Comments

Joey or Waseda;

I need some advice here. I went to Osco drugs and bought both zinc oxide cream and boric acid powder. The cream is 40% (the only strength on the shelf), and is too thick to apply to my head. In fact, it looks like I painted my head white. Any clues on how to thin this stuff out so it will rub on with out the white residue being visible? Btw, I tried to cut it with water but was not succesful. Please help!!

Zinc oxide powder Re: Joey & Waseda

From: fishy
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:29:33
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

Zinc oxide powder Question for fishy

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 13:51:48
Remote Name: 142.25.99.239

Comments

Hey fishy, I have mixed up the powder formula as you have. One problem at that consistency it get dry in about minutes and there isn't going to be any absorbtion. Also after about three days the amount I made has turned into a solid clump of white crap. I don't want to keep adding the boric acid because that can't be too good for me. What are you finding on your side of the fence?

Zinc oxide - Re: Question for fishy

From: fishy
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:35:10
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

did you boil like it said?, what i have done is boil is like it said to do. and put it in a empty butter container with the lid on to keep it moist. my batch is like a white jell. when i put it on i put on a baseball cap so as not to dry it out to quickly. doing it that way it stays moist on my head for at least 20 or 30 mins. but the batch in the butter dish stays moist and doesn't clump on me ,, i haven't had that problem...i will continue to use, simply put this is helping my hair and i have growth, you have to rememember you didn't loose your hair over night so you won't get it back over night either....i am convinced this is helping... best of luck to who posted this question......regards fishy

Zinc % - Re: Question for fishy

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:55:52
Remote Name: 64.12.105.188

Comments

Hey Fishy;

What percentile of zinc are you using? 10%?

Zinc % - Re: Question for fishy

From: fishy
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:39:34
Remote Name: 64.12.102.157

Comments

i am using exactly at stated in original post by waseda 40g

Absorbic acid vs Boric acid

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 14:08:04
Remote Name: 158.252.208.46

Comments

What is the difference between using Boric acid and Absorbic acid? In the reponse to my post Waseda recommended using Absorbic. Also, what stores are you guys buying this stuff at if you are in the the US?

Thanks

boric acid - walgreens, zinc oxide- osco drug, corn starch-any  grocery store

From: fishy
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:37:09
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

hope this helps you

Corn Starch: Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 17:46:44
Remote Name: 63.183.9.104

Comments

What is the corn starch for?..in waseda's formula he does not mention corn starch..can someone respost the formula I am a little confused about the proper ingrediants. I was under the impression that it was just a zinc oxcide and absorbic/boric acid.

Thanks

RESPONSE – read Patent 6103273

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry for the trouble..

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 18:48:46
Remote Name: 158.252.240.57

Comments

OK..I got the diaper rash cream with Zinc Oxide 40% is that too high a concentration??..I also have absorbic acid. Should I be using boric acid? I read the patent but I am not good at the whole chemistry thing so if you could help me out with the proper method for preparation I would appreciate it. Also, how much of each should I use to make a single batch?

Thanks ..hopefully I will start to understand this stuff soon

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 19:16:38
Remote Name: 211.132.35.26

Comments

There are in fact various patterns of zinc concentration in zinc oxide creams in this world. As for me, only 10% cream (1-2g per application) has contiunued woriking. Your cream concentration seems to be very high and 0.5g or so may be effective. And boric acid is not necessarily required at first. Add half tea spoon of ascorbic acid to a glass of water. This is very rough concentration of acid solution, but it is sufficient. This solution must reserved in refrigerator not to deteriorate. Put your 0.5g of cream on a small dish and add 2 to 5ml of the ascorbic acid solution to it and mix them. It's the stuff you apply.

I think patent's advanced treatment could be easily done, after you get accustomed to handling the easy cream+ascorbic acid treatment

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:11:23
Remote Name: 158.252.240.8

Comments

You keep talking about things in grams. Are you weighing this before mixing? Do I need to buy a scale?

Thanks

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:46:07
Remote Name: 211.132.38.228

Comments

You need not buy new scale. You can easily convert as one ounce = about 30 grams. So 1g = 0.03Å@ounce

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 21:03:42
Remote Name: 158.252.240.8

Comments

aren't ounces still a measurement of weight

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 22:01:06
Remote Name: 211.132.35.39

Comments

Sorry for confusing. You meant whether one MUST measure the exact weight before mixing, did'nt you? So 0.5 grams might be difficult to measure witout balance.

The weight of almost gel-like or cream-like stuffs doesn't differ far from that of water. And 1 c.c of water = 1 g. Your volume of upper part of the first joint of little finger amounts to about 3cc-4cc.(for example 1.5cm diamater, 2.5cm length eauals 0.75*0.75*3.14*2.5=4.41 c.c, but the top shapes like dome and the volume is supposed to about 3-4c.c). Thus you can measure 1 gram of cream as the volume of one third of your upper part of the first joint of little finger at most. We often see the instruction of cream saying one volume to be used per treatment about half of your little finger. It means about 1.5g-2g or so and it will be adequate for most cases. Imagine how much you usually apply your shaving cream

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 23:23:42
Remote Name: 158.252.240.8

Comments

should the absorbic acid dissolve in the water? should we boil the mixture or do I put the absorbic acid in cold water?

thanks

Re: Absorbic acid vs Boric acid..a few more questions..sorry ...

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 15:24:42
Remote Name: 211.132.34.169

Comments

<<should we boil the mixture or do I put the absorbic acid in cold water? >>

As ascorbic acid dissolve in cold water very well and is weak at hot temperature, you should use cold water and shouldn't boil it

Re: scale,,, where bought and price

From: fishy
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:47:17
Remote Name: 64.12.102.157

Comments

When it comes to dry too fast unexpectedly...

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 16:25:17
Remote Name: 211.132.38.193

Comments

1) When applied cream comes to dry earlier than you expected, you had better spray water over the dried surface and spread it again. If possible it is preferable the water being acid (for example ascorbid acid ar boric acid) solution. As Zn ion can penetrate the skin only if the area is wet, you can re-utilize the dried cream though getting wet within the time limit.

2) When the stored cream comes to dry, it can be melt with additional hot water. If the acid used is boric acid, it can be re-boiled with water, because boric acid is tough in hot temperature. If the acid used is ascorbic acid, you had better add lukewarm water

Waseda and others: zinc oxide mixing

From:
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 19:47:42
Remote Name: 128.193.168.150

Comments

What i have done is mix the tube of 30% zinc oxide cream with a 4 oz bottle of licorice tincture (so there is alcohol) and add a half teaspoon of pure ascorbic acid as you have suggested (waseda). This mixes well - doesn't dry too fast - seems to be 'working' so far...

comments Waseda

Re: Waseda and others: zinc oxide mixing

From: waseda
Date: 11 Feb 2001
Time: 20:48:12
Remote Name: 211.132.38.228

Comments

Excellent

Re: Waseda and others: zinc oxide mixing

From: Tom
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:59:57
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Interesting! It's very, very likely that the substance that is the most effective for your scalp and hair in this mixture, is the zinc oxide... the licorice tincture is probably augmenting the effects.

So do you mean to say you mixed the entire tube of zinc oxide product with the whole 4 oz's of licorice tincture, together with the ascorbic acid? If so, how much zinc oxide total did you use?

souhakuhi

From: shasmi
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 05:27:17
Remote Name: 195.92.67.219

Comments

To Waseda: Minox+zinc-oxide

From: Hairsinger
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 08:51:34
Remote Name: 130.238.9.120

Comments

Hi! This zinc-oxide thing seems promising, but I have a question regarding mixing the zinc-oxide composition with minoxidil. Do you think it might work? My thought was that the alcohol in the minox-solution might solve the zinc-oxide and make it easy to apply. It would be interesting to know what you think about it, or if I`m missing some important chemical property of zinc-oxide.

Thanks in advance

Re: To Waseda: Minox+zinc-oxide

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 15:20:19
Remote Name: 211.120.79.206

Comments

waseda please read/zinc – another source

From: william
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 12:14:37
Remote Name: 202.123.132.60

Comments

waseda i just found in a store a powder for called Balmex medicated plus baby powder.It has zinc oxide 10% and corn starch 86.9% what do you think of this and what would you mix with it to get the best results.Would i add a little zinc cream with this and absorbic acid.Could i mix it with azalic acid.What would be the best mix.

thank you,william

Re: waseda please read/zinc

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 16:36:44
Remote Name: 211.120.76.143

Comments

William, you found a very easy stuff to handle. You need not add zinc oxide because the zinc oxide is already sufficient. If I were you, I wouldn't boil, for it includes much corn starch. Boiling will solidify it and perhaps will be very sticky.

You guys are missing half of what the Zinc oxide theory is telling

From: Worried
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 13:51:24
Remote Name: 62.188.4.88

Comments

I mean ,by examining what is happening in Alopecia aerata where there is 100% regrowth form Zin oxide+starch+acid ..there must be some clear conclusions to that ! What do you think ???

Also here is a pretty guaranteed regimen to grow your hair back

From: Worried
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 13:58:44
Remote Name: 62.188.4.88

Comments

waseda, is this going to work? Mixing all ingredients

From: tk421
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 14:34:41
Remote Name: 132.206.171.50

Comments

I took the recipe you gave (from the patent I think): 500 mg water, 60 mg boric acid, 10 mg starch, and 40 mg zinc oxide powder, and asked my pharmacist to mix it. Then I will boil it for 20 minutes. Is this going to work? Is this the best way to do it? Why do people use a cream when they can do that? Seems simpler to me. Can I expect the solution to be too dry or pasty, or too liquid?

So many questions. Thanks for helping

Re: waseda, is this going to work?

From: waseda
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 16:20:03
Remote Name: 211.132.39.193

Comments

I think your 'mg' may be 'g'(grams). This is certainly the optimum treatment. Your stuff will more effective than normal non-boiled cream treatment according to one report where some comparison was done. And it will be not too dry.

Buying Boric acid + Zinc ox powder

From:
Date: 12 Feb 2001
Time: 16:27:52
Remote Name: 157.95.211.50

Comments

A few questions for the group.

1. Is boric acid sold under another name? I could not find it at the drug store. Do I need to go to a specialty store?

2. When ordering zinc oxide powder from a pharm is there a special name for it?

Thanks           

RESPONSE: Walgreens Sells it.

Re: Boric acid

From: duragio
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 01:13:51
Remote Name: 209.239.213.10

Comments

I just found some boric acid at a local Sav-On Pharmacy under their own house brand so you might want to check it out if there's a store near you.

About the zinc oxide powder, I think any baby creams containing zinc oxide should do. Someone else might be able to let you know where to get some powder though

Mixing the ingrediants

From:
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 00:57:26
Remote Name: 158.252.211.56

Comments

I bought some Desitin diaper rash cream 20% zinc oxide. Prepared the absorbic acid/water solution...they do not mix well at all. Is this normal? It is almost like oil and water!...is this normal or am I doing something wrong? Also, what is the best way to wash this stuff off?

Thanks

Re: Mixing the ingrediants

From:
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 01:10:31
Remote Name: 211.120.78.57

Comments

Re zinc oxide – Where to Obtain in US

From: fishy
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 07:58:29
Remote Name: 205.188.197.152

Comments

this whole web page is worth the time to wonder through – zinc theories, and benefits of zinc

From: fishy
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 12:40:24
Remote Name: 152.163.206.206

Comments

http://search.aol.com/redirect.adp?appname=QBP&query=
%a2%3a%59%27%44%49%8a%93%b6%e5%87%16%39%ea%85%
95%d7%bf%09%fd%31%2a%8d%66%91%53%eb%93%ce%a2%bc%e
d%da%c9%f5%b5%fc%cf%d0%8d%4d%6b%b0%2d%f0%39%b6%7b
%f4%7c%f4%37%97%00%d0%24%b9%35%09%cb%94%ae%7b%f8%
93%3e%70%33%0d%25%7c%73,,,,, take the time to go to the related links and read some of the things it talks about as far as lack of zinc in the body,,, it is tittled -links to zinc for common cold articles and other interesting links. i beleive you will find this whole web page on zinc interesting to read........

Re: curious finding how zinc is a strong wound healing agent

From: fishy
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 11:35:13
Remote Name: 64.12.102.152

Comments

on above post when you get to the page directed, click to the home page ,, scroll down toward the bottom ,, there is a section labled warning zinc deficiencys- cause for modern illnesses,, in the article they mention about how zinc is a stron wound healing agent among other things

Re: curious finding how zinc is a strong wound healing agent

From: Chris
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 02:25:33
Remote Name: 203.9.148.1

Comments

Interesting information in this group has a picture emerging in my mind's eye.

Less oxygen in the air allowing micro-organisms to thrive, copper pipes in the water system leeching copper that competes with zinc, modern chemically treated tobacco taken in actively and passively which depletes zinc, zinc as a building block of collagen and a wound healer and zinc deficiency causing primary T-cell lymphocyte immune system dysfunction (failure to terminate incipient malignancies, viral and fungal infections).

All of the above are conducive to baldness and ill health.

Re: curious finding how zinc is a strong wound healing agent

From: Tom
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 06:55:11
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Your analogy makes sense.. something else to think about is the fact that our soils (by 'our' I mean America's -- but any soil that isn't "virgin" soil i.e. hasn't been touched by herbicides/pesticides this would be true of to varying extents) have over the years gradually been depleted of trace nutrients and minerals, leading to less zinc in our food (among other things). BTW silver is another one; the silver content in our soil at the turn of the century was decent, but practically nonexistent today. Silver is an antimicrobial as well; we can make up for this through the use of colloidal silver, which is an entirely different subject in itself. My father is in his late 60's, since introducing him to colloidal silver (one of alternative medicine's best-kept secrets IMO) he has been enjoying great health, absence of sickness even when people around him are very ill, and a general feeling of well-being he didn't have before. He's a cancer survivor, and it feels great to be able to help him out like that. Do a web search on colloidal silver if you're interested. Anyway...

I did read the account of one doctor who believed that most of America is borderline zinc deficient. An over-reliance on processed food (e.g. fast-food, junk food, etc.) can lead to a deficiency. Not to mention that junk/fast food contains chemical additives that mimic the role of hormones in the body, and some of it contains hormones/antibiotics as well such as the case of milk -- don't know about you Chris but here in the U.S. the FDA's loose standards have led to our milk basically being crap... that's why I'd advise anyone suffering from HL to eat dairy in extreme moderation, cut down on meat, and change their diet to include lots of green veggies, legumes, and fish (fish oil=excellent). Chow down on these at LEAST a couple times a week. Go easy on red meats. Probably the chief reason the cancer rate here is one in 3 is America's heavy consumption of meat (esp. red meat) and dairy combined with pathetic FDA regulations for both. If you don't believe me, feel free to do a web search on these subjects -- they'll verify what I'm saying. I can't say what the situation is like in Australia where you are Chris, only what we live in here in the U.S., hopefully your plight is better :)

If you look at the zinc content in food, you'll notice that the same food also have copper in them, this is God's way of combining the two in one food (example: peanuts/almonds) to complete the package, since your body does *need* copper as well, but it's [high] copper toxicity that we're talking about here. And of all the imbalances that can happen in the body, high copper leading to low zinc is one of the most serious; the range of symptoms is immense, and Wilson's disease is a condition where the body can't get rid of copper hence the toxicity. Do a search on the problems related to high copper/low zinc -- in severe cases, HL is a result. In theory, all that would be necessary to produce excessive hair fallout, then, would be deficiency *in the scalp* where the follicles are present.

To sum it up, the zinc oxide therapy IS NOT a 'shot-in-the- dark' approach -- it has SOLID SCIENCE and evidence backing it. I'll be getting mine in shortly, and for everyone already trying it, please keep updating the forum with your results!

Desetin as a source of zinc oxide

From: Z
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 20:25:14
Remote Name: 24.16.136.28

Comments

Hi all

Is anyone using Desetin as a source of zinc oxide? If so, are you mixing the cream per Waseda's instructions?

Thanks

Re: Desetin

From:
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 21:36:52
Remote Name: 63.39.139.36

Comments

I bought it yesterday but have not used it. It does not mix well at all! I am going to try another brand that is not so oily

Re: Destin might be unexpectedly oily. Please follow iap's instrucion.

From: waseda
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 23:05:33
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

zinc mixing + what is licorice herbal tincture ?

From: iap
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 22:42:16
Remote Name: 128.193.168.141

Comments

i have suggested the 30% xinc oxide cream from Margarite cosmetic in florida that and health store should be able to get - it mixes superbly with a licorice herbal tincture (so there is alcohol too) and then just add a half teaspoon or so of ascorbic acid as Waseda suggested - goes on easily with a large eye dropper - i leave it on all night with not problem -doesnt dry too fast - seems to be 'working'

Re: zinc mixing

From:
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 00:21:14
Remote Name: 63.39.139.36

Comments

what is licorice herbal tincture?..what are some substitues that can be bought at a REGULAR drug store? if not where can u get it?

Question for iap (was Re: zinc mixing)

From: Z
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 12:35:42
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Thanks for the information, iap.

I have three questions:

1) Is this the cream that you are using? http://www.vitawarehouse.com/catalog/detail.cfm?Item_No=412100

2) What is the brand of licorice tincture that you are using?

3) Do you empty the *entire* content of the tube into the licorice tincture bottle?

to Z etc

From: iap
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:16:26
Remote Name: 205.167.155.9

Comments

http://www.vitawarehouse.com/catalog/detail.cfm?Item_No=412100

yes that's the zinc oxide i'm using

Re: to Z etc

From:
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:20:57
Remote Name: 157.95.211.50

Comments

I cant find this tincture anywhere close to me. I have called the natural stores. Any recomendations? The Zinc Oxide cream and water mixture are not mixing at all. Because it is a Diaper reash cream they are all water resistant! How are you guys getting this stuff to mix? I am lost on this!

Thanks

Re: to Z etc

From: waseda
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 19:15:28
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

Comments

If you can't mix the cream with water anyhow, first apply acid solution, that is, hydrate your scalp with acid water solution, next apply the oily cream. Though the method seems to be curious, oily cream works as *occlusion* and it comes to be a kind of cover preventing the skin from drying.

In fact, as non-oily zinc oxide cream dries too fast, some users apply perilla oil as occlusion

to Z etc

From: iap
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:16:34
Remote Name: 205.167.155.9

Comments

http://www.vitawarehouse.com/catalog/detail.cfm?Item_No=412100

yes that's the zinc oxide i'm using...

Zinc oxide mixing redux

From: iap
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:13:55
Remote Name: 205.167.155.9

Comments

THe zinc oxide cream i use is 30% and is from Margarite cosmetics in Florida - it's about the consistancy of toothpaste and mixes extremely well. Any health food store or natural foods grocery story (like Wild Oats) that uses Tree of Life as a distributor (they are nationwide) should be able to get it since it is in their catalog.

I have been mixing it with a 2 oz tincture of licorice extract because Waseda mentioned earlier that the commercial japanese formulas use glycerrihiza acid which is from licorice - any herbal tincture should do - find an herb shop or health food store as this is quite common. I just add half a tsp. of straight ascorbic acid as Waseda has suggested

zinc oxide storage

From: shasmi
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 00:28:00
Remote Name: 195.92.194.20

Comments

could anyone please let me know where to keep zinc boric starch mix. is it ok at room temp or do you keep it in the fridge. cheers

Re: zinc oxide storage

From: fishy
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 03:33:52
Remote Name: 205.188.197.187

Comments

TESTIMONIALS Re: zinc oxide storage  answer on it's working

From: fishy
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 18:13:43
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

Waseda – delivering Zinc Oxide ?
What we are trying to accomplish with Zinc Oxide ?

From: a quick question
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 08:18:46
Remote Name: 64.12.105.31

Comments

I would like to say that I appreciate the time and patience and knowledge you have brought to this forum. I have one quick question. Are we trying to deliver the zinc oxide through the skin? If this is the only case, could we use another type of vehicle- like rogaine with the oxide cream? Are the acid formulations only for the purpose of delivering the zinc? Thanks in Advance, E-Dogg

Waseda – delivering Zinc Oxide ?
What we are trying to accomplish with Zinc Oxide ?

From: waseda
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 16:33:08
Remote Name: 211.132.38.233

Comments

This problem has been discussed many times.

If zinc oxide alone is applied, the amount of zinc ion absorbed per hour will be about 1.6-2mg or so on the 15 cm square area of scalp, calculated from one study(1). This amount is short of your one day zinc loss due to perspiration (1-2mg) plus one shot ejection (1mg).

Only acid water solution can easily segregate the zinc ion massively. If we want to segregate transition elements such as zinc, aluminium etc. from oxide through artificial way, it will take enormous energy. Big electric power is needed to make the final reduction from aluminium oxide to pure aluminium. So is the zinc oxide.

Thus, only one effective method to generate a lot of zinc ion from zinc oxide other than with big energy is to make the vehicle acid. Of course you can use Rogaine as vehicle, but you have to add some weak acid water solution to it or spray the acid solution after spreading, because Rogaine is a bit alkaline. Minox with azelaic acid or with Retin A is useful to that purpose as well.

***************

(1) Dermatologica 1990;180(1):36-9

Percutaneous absorption of zinc from zinc oxide applied topically to intact skin in man.

Agren MS

Department of Pathology, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linkoping, Sweden.

Here's the Zinc Oxide Recipe as posted by Waseda

From: Z
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 09:37:39
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Comments There are some version of treatments, but this is proverbly the simplest, easiest way. Only two stuffs needed.

1. Red Clover Rash Care Cream 4 oz : $5.28

http://www.nutritionblvd.com/398106.html

(or some baby cream including zinc oxide)

2. ASCORBIC ACID fine granular. Pure acid form vitamin C. 300 grams, $4.50. Code 118.1

https://www2.acadia.net/cgi-bin/BAC/web_store.cgi?product=Vitamins
&cart_id=2003479_6135

Never mind, FOUND it! (Re: Yet another question for Waseda)

From: Z
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 10:39:00
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Here's the formula if you are using the powder:

The stuff used for trials by the inventor is:

starch 10 (1.64%) boric acid 60 (9.84%) zinc oxide 40 (6.56%) water 500 (81.97%) total 610 (100%)

Mix them and boil stirring continuously for 20 minutes. After getting cool, spread it on the target scalp and wash it away after 25 minutes. Treatment duration time must be within 60 minutes per treatment. Apply once a day and 6 days per week for the first 2-3 months. If you can recognize some result, decrease the frequency per week for example 4 days, 3 days etc. and finally 2 days or one day per week. As for me, two days per week after 8 months, though I use the second (following) version.

Pants showed us the site to get ingredients: http://www.sciencealliance.com/

boric acid, reagent, $7.14/100g, corn starch, lab, $4.24/100g, zinc oxide, powder, lab, $5.80/100g.

Fishy showed boric acid 4 oz liquid at www.medichest.com.

Desitin POWDER

From: Z
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 10:42:21
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

It seems that Desitin has a zinc oxide powder which has corn starch already added to it.

TESTIMONIAL Re: To Fishy

From: fishy
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 16:26:21
Remote Name: 205.188.197.189

Comments

Question to those using zinc oxide/boric/starch mixture
Consistency

From: diesel
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 18:22:44
Remote Name: 205.188.200.27

Comments

Just made my first batch today. Can anyone tell me what the consistency of their batch is like. Mine is the consistency of a milky creme. It has a grainy texture to it. Is this correct or should it have a thicker consistency? Looks like watered down creme. Is the griny texture normal or should the contents have dissolved? This was prepared by boiling

Re: Question to those using zinc oxide/boric/starch mixture

From:
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 18:25:32
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

If it looks as though you've been wanking all day long and saving it in a jar, you're there

Re: Question to those using zinc oxide/boric/starch mixture

From: fishy
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 03:33:19
Remote Name: 205.188.200.26

Comments

Z: licorice tincture

From: iap
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 19:10:08
Remote Name: 128.193.168.144

Comments

Waseda: Shedding phase from Zinc Oxide treatment?

From: baldilocks
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 11:33:08
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

Waseda,

After growing those hairs on your scalp, have you to date encountered a shedding phase. As is often reported with minoxidil and propecia a shedding phase results in which the newly grown haris drop out to be later replaced, so for a while one appears balder.

Has that happened to you or anybody else on this treatment?

Thanks

Re: Waseda: Shedding phase from Zinc Oxide treatment?

From: waseda
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 15:36:07
Remote Name: 211.132.32.88

Comments

WASEDA? Another application question

From: yoyo
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 13:48:39
Remote Name: 152.163.205.69

Comments

i have purchased a cream of zinc oxide , and purchased ascorbic acid. am i supposed toabout a half of a teaspoon full in a cup of water and refrigerate. when i go to apply it , do i put about 2ML of the ascorbic acid mixture on the effected area , and then apply the zinc. is this correct. also, can boric acid take the place of ascorbic acid in the water solution. thanks

Re: WASEDA?

From: waseda
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 15:48:11
Remote Name: 211.132.39.201

Comments

Only if the cream is too oily to dissolve with water, apply ascorbic acid water solution first. But, if the cream can be easily dissolved, *MIX* the cream with ascorbic acid water solution on some adequate small dish first and apply the muddy soft cream.

question to Fishy – Zinc oxide cream vs powder

From: imdone
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 14:01:49
Remote Name: 152.163.205.69

Comments

i have bought the zinc oxide cream. it is a very thick cream, and when applied it is very hard to wash off. like a petroleum jelly consistency. is this the right stuff

Re: question to Fishy - Zinc oxide cream vs powder

From: fishy
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 03:23:21
Remote Name: 205.188.197.163

Comments

Permanent solution of zinc oxide- questions for Mr. Waseda

From: simon
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 22:43:10
Remote Name: 212.138.47.24

Comments

Is there any way of making a permanent solution of zinc oxide and absorbic acid that does not require refrigeration?

What is the soulibility of zinc oxide in water? (I tried making a solution of zinc oxide and absorbic acid in water but I ended up with a creamy preicipitate

Re: Permanent solution of zinc oxide- questions for Mr. Waseda

From: waseda
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 23:45:40
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

Comments

Unluckily, zinc oxide is a typical oxide which is less soluble in water and ascorbic acid is a typical acid which is prone to be oxidated in high temperature. In addition, if you add starch, the stuff is inclined to decay.

To Waseda: adding copper to the treatment

From: Tony
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 23:43:41
Remote Name: 212.138.47.21

Comments

According to some research, copper ions inhibit both type I and type II 5-alpha reductase enzymes, wheras zinc ions only inhibit one type. Which leads us to the following question:

What are your thoughts on adding copper to the mixture and what would be the best way to do this?

copper is an important nutrient for normal hair growth. I've also heard of research that indicates that incresing levels of zinc in the body, decreases the levels of copper. If this is so, could the zinc oxide treatment discussed in this forum be counterproductive by decreasing copper levels

Re: To Waseda: adding copper to the treatment

From: waseda
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 08:02:05
Remote Name: 211.132.39.129

Comments

The relation between zinc level and copper level in our body is certainly important as you correctly indicate. While the risky amount of zinc is relatively high, that of copper is very low (9mg/day or so), and we must take care when we take additional copper. As ionization tendency of zinc is larger than that of copper, copper (for example copper peptide as in Folligen) will be kept out by zinc, if both are contained in the same solution or applied topically at the same time. So, we must take a few additional copper (maybe 1-2mg per day) orally. In general, it is said that additional 10mg of zinc demands additional 1mg of copper and 1-2mg of oral copper will be estimated to be sufficient.

what is the function of the ascorbic acid in this treatment?

From: Bob
Date: 16 Feb 2001
Time: 23:54:11
Remote Name: 212.138.47.22

Comments

what is the function of ascorbic acid in this treatment?

Re: what is the function of the ascorbic acid in this treatment?

From: waseda
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 08:23:00
Remote Name: 211.13.141.128

Comments

Ascorbic acid works as an ionizer of zinc instead of boric acid. Perhaps boric acid is stronger than a. acid, but a.acid is less irritative and in addition, works as HGF inducer.

Through some trials and errors, we found weak acid is absolutely needed for the treatment and the ascorbic acid is the safe and potent one of such acids

Re: what is the function of the ascorbic acid in this treatment?

From: Kiefer
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 23:46:57
Remote Name: 157.24.105.109

Comments

Waseda (please) – the ideal formula

From: Pepto
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 08:34:32
Remote Name: 213.1.64.153

Comments

Hi Waseda,

Is this the best way to make/formulate or to get it made, the Zinc Oxide treatment: (it is important I know as a pharmacy may make it so it is available to the mass public)

starch 10g, boric acid (powder) 60g, zinc oxide (powder) 40g, water 500g (500ml)

Or would you change anything ie. have asorbic acid instead of boric acid.

Should grape seed extract also be included in this formula?

Do u apply minoxidil first, then zinc oxide which u leave on for half an hour and then does it have to be washed off with shampoo or is water ok?

Thank you

Re: Waseda (please)

From: waseda
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 09:21:17
Remote Name: 211.120.77.214

Comments

Hi, Pepto. <<starch 10g, boric acid (powder) 60g, zinc oxide (powder) 40g, water 500g (500ml) >>

This is just the exact original treatment. And you have only to boil it for 20 minutes.

Once you can prepare the above ingredients, you need not add ascorbic acid and need not change boric acid.

Grape seed extract is not included in this formula. It's another topic.

Question to waseda - Refrigerate

From: diesel
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 14:55:52
Remote Name: 152.163.204.189

Comments

Should the zinc oxide/boric acid/corn starch boiled mixture be stored in the refrigerator to avoid decay or can it be left in a closed container at room temperature? Thank you

Re: Question to waseda - Refrigerate

From: fishy
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 17:33:07
Remote Name: 152.163.206.208

Comments

HELP - This recipe didn't work -or i didn't do it right, suggestions? – tiny white clumps / Xandrox

From:
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 16:59:29
Remote Name: 63.203.76.136

Comments

Hi,

zinc oxide waseda please read – another formula

From: william
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 17:05:31
Remote Name: 202.123.132.55

Comments

waseda what about this regimin crushed 50 miligrams of zinc oxide tablets absorbic acid water pumkin seed oil azalic acid this mixes real easy in just hot water not boiling.william

Re: zinc oxide waseda please read another formula

From: waseda
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 02:26:54
Remote Name: 211.120.79.225

Comments

William, your method is very interesing and looks like easy.

for u.k. posters

From: shasmi
Date: 17 Feb 2001
Time: 23:57:29
Remote Name: 195.92.194.19

Comments

if anyone in the U.K. is looking to make zinc oxide, corn starch in this country is called corn flour(45p for 250g from sainsbury`s).zinc oxide powder i got from the chemist, they ordered and came the next day(4.99 500g).and boric acid was 99p for 100g.there you go

Re: for u.k. posters

From:
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 03:34:57
Remote Name: 62.252.64.4

Comments

Hey, thanks for that info man, did the chemist also get in the boric acid for you?

Re: for u.k. posters

From: shasmi
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 04:28:53
Remote Name: 195.92.194.20

Comments

Zinc Oxide cream - A UK source

From: Jez
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 12:18:02
Remote Name: 62.252.96.4

Comments

Hi everyone. I've found a UK source for a Zinc oxide cream if anyone's interested:

www.eco-babes.co.uk/

Go to the creams section, and it's called Red Clover cream.

Good luck everyone,

Jez

to waseda Folligen ? –copper intake

From: shasmi
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 01:45:55
Remote Name: 195.92.194.17

Comments

waseda, i posted to you a while back about ingredients for souhakuhi if you remember, i know you get alot of posts. anyway i went over to the next town to a little chinese herbalists and got all the ingredients exept one, zi su ye(perilla leaf). when the herbalist looked at the list i gave, she asked me to pronounce zi su ye which was a bit unusual me being english and she chinese. what they gave me is not perilla leafs its more like bark. not to worry i`ll get the right stuff next time. i did manage to get red lithospermum root like you said, thankyou. i`ve one question, i read the previous posts on zinc and copper. i take 25mg of zinc orally each day and use folligen and the zinc oxide(the abstract version) treaments at oppisite ends of the day, my scalp has never felt so better. is this about right or should i take some copper internally. thanks for your time again. shasmi

Re: to waseda

From: waseda
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 02:33:57
Remote Name: 211.132.35.231

Comments

This is my honest feeling: Is Folligen really good?? I once used much Folligen but had no result. I agree the copper peptide will be good for *skin* tissue, but I wonder too much copper may be harmful to hair growth. After noticing, I stopped using Folligen. Instead I have taken copper a little through oral supplement.

I speculate copper is required only for recovering the balance of zinc/copper. Strangely, my new hair growth started after stopping Folligen.

The fact is I often see good results on hair growth based on some forms of zinc compound, but I have never seen hair gowth based on some kinds of copper compound. If you have had a good result with Folligen, excuse me

Re: to waseda

From: Tom
Date: 18 Feb 2001
Time: 09:25:11
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Most people get enough copper already, without modifying their diets. So chances are, you don't need to be concerned with taking a copper supplement. On the other hand, due to depleted soils here in the U.S. and abroad (to varying extents), the zinc content in the typical diet is minimal. And it is MUCH easier to become toxic (an excess of the metal) in copper than it is to become toxic with zinc. Zinc toxicity is very low compared to copper. And yes, too much copper is harmful to hair growth and can cause other skin problems in general -- dandruff, excema-like conditions, etc. You can do a web search on this kind of information and verify it if you like.

I myself take 100mg zinc per day, maybe once a week or so take no zinc caplet, and also take a b-vitamin complex (B vitamins are essential) and a multi-enzyme with each meal.

Dragon's Blood: An optional adjunct to ZnO treatment

From: Tom
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 07:03:06
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Hello guys,

I figured the "Dragon's Blood" in the subject header would get your attention :)

For about the past 3 weeks, I've been using a strong wound-healing resin topically called 'Sangre De Drago' (translated: Blood of the Dragon). It is indigenous to South America and is actually a sap extracted from a tree, which contains wound-healing & anti-oxidant properties among others. I gave it a try because the data on it said it contained proanthocyanadins -- the same antioxidant substance included in the Japanese product which is (I believe) in Waseda's regimen as well. Unfortunately that product is not available outside of Japan; that's why Sangre De Drago (I'll abbreviate it "SDD" here) caught my eye.

First off, some URL's, but these by no means are exhaustive on the subject:

http://www.ashaninka.com/sangre.htm (You can purchase it at the site above

http://www.biopark.org/sangrededrago.html (Notice this botanical is also known by other names)

http://rain-tree.com/sangre.htm (More info)

Results: Bear in mind that I've only been using it a short time... the best I can say about it is the fact that is has completely and totally KNOCKED OUT my dandruff and flaking problems. Even using Nizoral 2% every other day, in rotation with Neways shampoo (http://www.neways.com/), it took care of about 90% of my dandruff; however using SDD it eliminated completely the dandruff problems I had -- to give it an educated guess as to why, I'd say probably SDD's anti-inflammatory properties. There has been general thickening and strengthening of the hair all over my head, especially in back. As far as regrowth, it's hard to tell.

SDD is used by the people of South America to treat exzema skin conditions, and to heal wounds quickly, among other things. It can be used internally as well as topically.

The Good: SDD is *cheap*. Especially if you will be using it topically; this brings me to a very important point: if you decide to use it, DILUTE IT. This is extremely important! Don't put it just straight on your head -- it's a thick sap that forms a kind of coating on your skin. Dilute it AT LEAST by 50% with distilled water. Now, SDD is a reddish-colored substance (hence its name), and I have brown hair myself; anyone with blonde or light-colored hair I cannot say with any certainty if it will stain their hair or not. The more diluted the SDD in water, the better -- but obviously this decreases its efficacy as well when you do this. But it is a powerful skin healer full of antioxidants, a fact borne out by my scalp's really healthy condition after using it. Another good quality is that if you decide to buy it, use it topically, and decide for any reason that it's not for you, you can use it internally after putting a few drops in water. So, it wouldn't be wasted money. Given the proanthocyanadins in it, which are proven hair-growth stimulators, you should experience at last a modicum of success when using it.

What makes it effective fighting HL? Well, the best I can theorize as to why it works, are the following properties: 1) It's an astringent; many home remedies for HL have this property. Example: Rosemary. 2) Wound-healing properties -- note the taspine in it. This is exceptionally good stuff for general skin healing, which by default can only be good for the hair. 3) Anti-bacterial AND even anti-viral properties, for those nasty bacteria that contribute to HL-related dandruff/scaling/flaking 4) Anti-oxidant. These have been shown to stimulate growth, ex: grape seed extract. 5) Anti-inflammatory. For combatting the immune reaction that plays a significant and under-rated role in the HL problem.

The Bad: It's awkward to use. Before bedtime is really the only option as far as when to apply it, because of the thickness of the SDD; this is far from a 'no muss no fuss' scalp treatment. Again, you *must* dilute it in water, or it will be extremely difficult to wash out the next morning. Put an old towel or something over the pillow of your bed, because the SDD tends to badly stain (much like grape juice or blood) anything it comes into contact with. I really can't emphasize this enough.

In your shampoo regimen, make sure you include a good cleanser to use the morning after SDD. I use Neways shampoo which I find it just excellent all-around. It slows hair fallout, and deep-cleans while being very gentle on the scalp (sodium lauryl sulfate-free).

Not much more to say on Dragon's Blood. I would recommend giving it a try; Waseda's current regimen if I'm not mistaken does include the Japanese product that contains proanthocyanadins, and using SDD would give you what that particular product contains, and probably more. It has great antioxidant activity, and trust me brothers, I had tried everything -- EVERYTHING -- to get rid of my dandruff. Nothing did it completely, before I used SDD. If it can work for me, the ultimate nonresponder, it should be able to help most other folks as well. It's cheap, and if you don't care for it, you're only out a few bucks OR can use it internally (BTW I'm not affiliated with any company selling it). I've just started out with zinc oxide, and the two different treatments may augment each other pretty well, have to try it and see.

Best of luck, Tom

Re: Dragon's Blood: An optional adjunct to ZnO treatment

From: Chris
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 03:45:27
Remote Name: 203.9.148.1

Comments

Good find Tom. It seems that anything that can act as a wound healer and/or scar remover, whether it's SDD, tamanu oil, serrapeptase or whatever, is going to help undo some (all?, most??) of the damage to the follicle. This can only help us in our battle with MPB. I shall order this ASAP. It's cheap also.

BTW, where can I purchase the Neways 2nd Chance shampoo and conditioner? Their www site doesn't seem to have an order page.

The conditioner contains EDTA and that's the amino acid they administer intravenously in order to chelate heavy metals and junk from the aterial system. It's searches for similar substances that lead me to serrapetase and tamanu oil. I think adding that conditioner to our regimen can only be benefitial

Re: Dragon's Blood: An optional adjunct to ZnO treatment

From: Tom
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 05:35:24
Remote Name: 192.132.24.66

Comments

Chris, They should have a contact number there somewhere. Since you are in Australia... I talked to them roughly a year ago and they mentioned they have an international presence, in which countries I'm not sure, but Neways is no small business :)

I haven't used their conditioner, interesting it contains EDTA though. Do most other conditioners?

As far as skin healing substances go, the ones *we* are looking for, that would be beneficial for HL, would include the anti- inflammatories, those that foster new skin growth, antioxidants, etc. Tamanu Oil and SDD are two of these. My point is, if someone suffering from HL also is experiencing itching, dandruff, and flaking, the latter problems must be addressed and completely stopped before any improvement in their HL problem can be expected. This is just common sense, but many times people suffering from MPB don't think rationally when making decisions on how to treat it. But general skin deterioration of the scalp IS a factor here -- have you noticed a lot of Norwood 7's also have age spots on their scalps? The end result is a lot of destruction of the skin. Zinc is pivotal in skin health as well as other bodily functions and most definitely comes into play in MPB.

Tom

Re: Dragon's Blood: An optional adjunct to ZnO treatment

From: Chris
Date: 21 Feb 2001
Time: 04:10:11
Remote Name: 203.9.148.12

Comments

Tom, as far as I know this is the only conditioner that has EDTA. I may have seen its name pop up in a shampoo sometime, but I just can't remember. Nevertheless www.neways.com says their conditioner is the work horse of the hair care system and it should be kept on the scalp as much as possible.

Yes I truly believe the skin must be regenerated/healed for and any cure for MPB to truly work.

When I first noticed MPB in 1983 at the age of 23, I had to call a doctor as the itchiness (immune response) was unbearable. He gave me a shampoo that resembled methylated spirits in jelly form. It sort of worked, but I have slowly lost my hair in a difuse pattern ever since. The products I have used (mainly minoxidil, since 1989) may have slowed it down but I can't say for sure what would have happened if I didn't use anything.

I just hope these more natural home grown remedies have more results. We can only try and give out information to each other through the internet.

4 QUESTIONS for FISHY – RESULTS + Shedding

From: Trey
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 14:06:56
Remote Name: 209.179.228.233

Comments

Hello,

You've probably already answered these, but someone told me that you had great results with Zinc Oxide and fast. Can you tell me...

1) How long it took you to see results?

2) How good are the results (how bald were you before and how do you look now).

3) Did it sprout new vellus hairs or turn the vellus to terminal (or both)?

4) EXACTLY what are you using? Just Zinc Oxide or some of the other things Waseda mentions?

Thanks,

Trey

Re: 4 QUESTIONS for FISHY RESULTS + Shedding

From: fishy
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 14:27:35
Remote Name: 64.12.102.182

Comments

trey. i have been using zinc forumula since jan 26, as far as my baldness. the entire top of my head was easy to be seen. i first started seing a brown haze after 2nd week. mind you it is still growing, can i see a difference day to day ,,, no. but can i see a difference from now to 2 months ago,, a for sure YES. the haze is now to the point i can run my hand through it. looking straight into a mirror you can not see the wall behind me. 2 months ago you could not only see the wall but could read a news paper if it were behind me. i use the orginal formula posted by waseda with one diference. the orginal formula got runny after a couple weeks, i have noticed that if i use zinc oxide cream, figure the grams in the cream ,, add zinc oxide power to get equal to orginal forumula,, it stays in a cream base much longer, i plan on to continue this plan, as rogaine and the other things i have tried never did i see these results. i hope this helps you,, cuz i know how it truly sucks to loose hair. mind you i still use rogain in the morning and night with the zinc treatment in between

Re: 4 QUESTIONS for FISHY

From: Trey
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 15:57:52
Remote Name: 209.179.229.58

Comments

So you have had no shedding (what I fear most)?

Trey

Re: 4 QUESTIONS for FISHY

From: FISHY
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 17:33:00
Remote Name: 205.188.197.157

Comments

i have had very little shedding. but i'm really not sure if i'm suppose to have any or not. i just hope the future continues with growth

Re: P.S. where to purchase

From: fishy
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 17:36:58
Remote Name: 205.188.197.157

Comments

bought boric acid at walgreens, corn starch at any grocery store, and zinc oxide power at osco drug, as well zinc oxide cream at walgrens..plus a diet scale at walgrens to measure with

Waseda – results and regrowth, how long ?

From: Trey
Date: 19 Feb 2001
Time: 20:09:04
Remote Name: 216.244.24.25

Comments

Waseda,

I know you have given me info before, but I was wondering if you have found the information on that patent to be true; about it taking between 1 to 6 months for the hair to "grow to the point where it appears normal". How long have you been on this program? And does this mean that ALL of the hairs are supposed to eventually look normal? This sounds too good to be true.

Thanks,

Trey

Re: Waseda results and regrowth, how long ?

From: waseda
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 01:02:32
Remote Name: 203.180.70.10

Comments

I can understand hair loss people having been cheaten, taken in, paying thousands of dollars feel dubious about the cases of full recovery through 'such simple solutions'. In fact I am also only on the way to final come-back and may not have any qualifications of claiming full recovery.

As it has been less than a year since this treatment started, almost all hair loss men in our country are now carrying out trials and errors and finding the best way of adjusting the treatment to their own cirsumstances as people in UK, US, Australia, NZ and Europa.

Perhaps this guy is the first man who got game over and posted it in the world. (How I envy him!!)

(translation from Hidemania, 01/02/18 16:29:40, http://faf.presen.to/bbs/doc/001909.html?8)

To Mr. Kentaro. I am surprised at finding my name unexpectedly after a long while. As you suppose, I use 'Pokka lemon( condensed lemon extract*)' and pure water to make zinc oxide cream acid. Though I have been using lemon extract while I have no theoretical reasoning, my hair progess is now in the best condition. I apply the lemon version zinc oxide cream after applying hair gowth products and before hair washing. I wash it off within two hours lest I get irritation, and I add lemon extact into the washing water and rinsing green tea. I consume two bottles of Pokka lemon 100(ml) per month.

Let me write down my regimen other than lemon version zinc oxide. I am very happy if someone is interested in them and post any opinions concerning them.

1. Perilla oil lotion. This is for prevention of allergy, but I use it really a lot, for I have no need to wash it off and it can be also applied to hair lotion. Have I to limit the amount used?

2. Spironolactone alcoholic solution for a year. It seems more effective when mixing it with ethanol + perilla oil than mixing with Headway. Fincar is only taken orally but not topically. I have never experienced the Finasteride shedding. How about you?

3. I feel perilla oil is really good for my scalp improvement, but is horse oil more effective than perilla oil?

4. I am multi-amino acid supplements lover and I started L-lisine since it was shown to be good for hair growth.

5. Barber pointed out the change of my hair ( harder and tougher. He claimed my hair turned troublesome because of unexpectedly vouluminous afer drying and of many short hairs being hidden everywhere).

Yesterday, I made at last my hair style back as before the time I had been worried about hair loss.

*d- Limonen from citrus fruits such as lemon, orange is provent to possess the inhibiting effect of 5 alpha reductase.

***********

I can't suspect the reality of this guy's post by any means. What do you feel about

Re: Waseda results and regrowth, how long ?

From: Trey
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 09:41:14
Remote Name: 216.244.25.12

Comments

Tom, I think that regimen was someone else's; not Waseda's. He was just posting the info.

Waseda: didn't you say in another post that the area you were working on had been shiny for years and years? And that now it is covered with velvet-like hairs? Are these hairs gradually getting thicker and do you see any realistic hope that they will eventually go terminal (based on all you've read, etc.)

Thanks,

Trey

Re: Waseda results and regrowth, how long ?

From: waseda
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 11:34:34
Remote Name: 211.132.37.143

Comments

<<now it is covered with velvet-like hairs?>> Some have been already terminal hairs. The back crown area is being invaded by the ivy-like hairs from the back to upward.

Q for Waseda - irritation of scalp

From: Hairsinger
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 09:54:02
Remote Name: 130.238.7.35

Comments

Hi Waseda! I have a question about zinc-oxide. When I apply it on the scalp I get this burning feeling and the skin turns a bit red. I was wondering if this is "normal" when you use this treatment, or if my zinc-oxide mixture has to much zinc in it. Or perhaps too much acid? I prepared it from 40% zinc-oxide cream.

Thanks in advance

Re: Q for Waseda - irritation of scalp

From: waseda
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 12:47:34
Remote Name: 211.13.141.10

Comments

Hairsinger(Oh what a romantic name you have), the zinc oxide cream is absolutely not irritating, because it is likely to be applied to babies in any countries. If you felt some burning or irritating sensation, it came from acid. In particular, if you suffer from inflammation or fungi infection, you must feel more burning. Or such sensation is just the symptom of inflammation.

1) Shorten the applying time. For example, 15 minutes or 10 minutes till washing off.

or

Nizoral and Zinc Oxide - Waseda?

From: Z
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 11:48:49
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Waseda

Do you forsee any problems with applying the ZO solution first and then applying Nizoral shampoo for 30-45 minutes?

Thanks very much in advance

Re: Nizoral and Zinc Oxide - Waseda?

From: waseda
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 13:08:38
Remote Name: 211.13.141.87

Comments

This is referred to in the patent description, though it is not Nizoral but general shampoo.

Waseda:  how do I apply the cream?

From: tk421
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 12:46:55
Remote Name: 132.206.171.31

Comments

Hi waseda!

I just got my cream from my drugstore, and I boiled it, and I started to apply it. The problem is that I don't know if I have to RUB IT IN, or just leave it on the scalp for an hour, before washing it away. I don't want to rub it if I don't have to, since I'm afraid that it may damage some weaker follicles.

What do you do with it? I want to know for sure

Re: Waseda:  how do I apply the cream?

From: waseda
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 12:54:36
Remote Name: 211.13.141.10

Comments

No need of rubbing. Please spread it mildly, softly as if your scalp were your girl friend's soft skin. Zinc ion will penetrate your skin automatically. Ionization method is known as the best method of absorption and never rub the mixture

Also, how much do I use?

From: tk421
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 12:48:19
Remote Name: 132.206.171.31

Comments

What is the recommended dosage? Is this in the patent? Can somebody point me out where taht patent is?

We should ask hairsite to gather all of this fine information

Patent info for TK421

From: Trey
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 13:29:33
Remote Name: 216.244.25.134

Comments

TK,

The server must be down, but the link is:

http://164.195.101.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HIT
OFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s
1='6103273'.WKU.&OS=PN/6103273&RS=PN/6103273

In the meantime, here is the info (I cut and pasted it yesterday in case something like this happened) --------------------------------------------- United States Patent 6,103,273 Antoun August 15, 2000

Pharmaceutical composition comprising starch, a compound comprising boron, a compound comprising zinc, and water, and a method of using same to encourage hair growth

Abstract

It may be an idea if a few people contact communitydrug to do a costing of the zinc oxide treatment as they may be able to put it in a liposome which would take it straight to the hair follicle and this in theory would mean better results. n/t

From:
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 13:43:51
Remote Name: 62.7.113.50

Comments

Re: E-mail Aaron at Community Drug: pharmacy@communitydrug.com an...

From: diesel
Date: 21 Feb 2001
Time: 22:34:53
Remote Name: 64.12.105.36

Comments

Look, if this is something you would like to do then by all means go ahead. It is not really necessary. The formula is cheap and easy to make. It's delivery is by way of ionization which is very effective. It is the zinc ions we are interested in. This has been explained by waseda in previous posts. Sometimes things are what they are, very simple. No need to spend unnecessary money, or wait for delivery. It's also actually quite a thrill knowing that you have an active roll in combating your hairloss problem. Reminds me of being a kid and making that mud pie!!!! Don't you agree gang

Re: E-mail Aaron at Community Drug: pharmacy@communitydrug.co...

From: fishy
Date: 22 Feb 2001
Time: 03:29:35
Remote Name: 64.12.105.179

Comments

i agree totaly with you diesel ,, it is easy to make,,and wouldn't it piss the multi billion dollar hair loss industry if this 5 dollar month mud pie works to the point of what the patent is claiming

WASEDA (and others): QUESTIONS about the Patent instructions

From: Trey
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 13:44:50
Remote Name: 216.244.25.134

Comments

From all that I have read at alt.baldspot and the HM forum and other info on the Internet over the past 8 months, I have decided that this Zinc Oxide treatment is the one that is most worth a shot considering the simplicity of it, the cost of it, and the excellent results some of you are getting. Now, I'm going to re-post the instructions from the patent below and then ask some questions:

------------------------------------------------------

United States Patent 6,103,273 Antoun August 15, 2000

Pharmaceutical composition comprising starch, a compound comprising boron, a compound comprising zinc, and water, and a method of using same to encourage hair growth

Abstract

A pharmaceutical composition for the treatment of alopecia areata and male pattern baldness is preferably made from boric acid, zinc oxide, and starch. The method of the present invention comprises applying the pharmaceutical composition of the present invention to a person's scalp. The pharmaceutical composition of the present invention can comprise 10 parts by weight starch, 60 parts by weight boric acid, 40 parts by weight zinc oxide, and 500 parts by weight water. The dry ingredients (starch, boric acid, and zinc oxide) are mixed together, then the water is added. The mixture is boiled for 20 minutes, stirring continuously. The mixture will thicken, become smooth, and the final consistency will have minute lumps within the liquid. Preferably, before the pharmaceutical composition of the present invention is applied to the scalp, the bald spots are scrubbed with either pure lamb's wool or a soft-bristled brush made of animal hair. This cleanses the residue from the skin. The pharmaceutical composition of the present invention is then rubbed on the bald spots. After 25 minutes, the scalp is rinsed, removing any excess composition. This procedure is repeated daily for 15 days. The inventor has found that it usually takes three-fifteen days for pores to open and fifteen days to three months for fuzzy hair to appear. The inventor has found that it takes approximately one to six months for hair to grow to the point where it appears normal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, like TK421 pointed out: I'm afraid to rub my thinning areas vigorously for fear of destroying those thin hairs that are still hanging on for dear life (bless their hearts!). What do we do about this. Waseda you say we don't need to do this?

Also, when he says "starch" I'm assuming he means corn starch, is that right?

Another thing: he says to leave it on for 25 minutes, but I've heard some of you leaving it on for an hour or so. What's the best timeframe?

And do you find that his timeframe as to when hair start appearing is true? I'd be ecstatic if those tiny vellus hairs on my hairline started to go terminal, even if I never sprouted new hairs. In fact, I'm not really concerned about a bald spot in the back; what everyone notices is what we look like from the front (I hope this works...)

Please answer these questions for me, if you would, and Waseda I posted three more questions for you in the thread above about "KOA."

Thanks all... let's keep our fingers crossed.

Trey

Re: WASEDA (and others): QUESTIONS about the Patent instructions

From: waseda
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 15:03:39
Remote Name: 211.13.140.223

Comments

Though the patent owner claims rubbing, spreading is sufficient. The reosen is what we need for our hair follicles is not the zinc oxide powder but zinc ion. In general, three major methods are used for good penetration of some compounds through skin. Alcohol or fat-soluble vehicle, making liposome, and ionization. Zinc oxide plus acid treatment is a typical ionization method. Ionized zinc is really small and is able to penetrate the skin barrier easily. Thus we need not rub the cream. In fact too srong rubbing may cause hair follicle pulling and fall out.

Starch is just 'corn strach'. Some people may take starch as the sticky starch used in Chinese cuisine, but it is too sticky to apply.

If you use original patent's treatment, that is boric acid+starch approach, you should follow the 25 minutes timeframe, because boric acid is rather strong and may cause irritation. But if you use the zinc oxide cream + ascorbic acid (or lemon extract, citric acid, vinegar) approach, you can extend the time up to 2,3 hours or if possible, overnight. If worried, one hour is best as anyway the stuff may dry within one hour.

Trey, we can't tell where the first growth starts beforehand. In spite of my hope, my first hair growth started on the forehead instead of top of the head. For horseshoe bald man, it looked very ugly

Re: WASEDA (and others): RESULTS

From: fishy
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 16:08:41
Remote Name: 152.163.197.188

Comments

Found a very interesting Ointment to use...

From: Martin Case
Date: 20 Feb 2001
Time: 17:33:59
Remote Name: 216.135.204.202

Comments

Waseda / All:

I found adiaper rash ointment- it is a generic marketed under the name Perfect Choice here in Southern California. It is 40% Zinc Oxide in a base of Cod Liver oil and methylparaben.

I am going to try using it - anyone know if using this high an amount of Zinc Oxide is good/bad ?

-Martin

Re: Found a very interesting Ointment to use...

From: Z
Date: 21 Feb 2001
Time: 08:01:13
Remote Name: 148.126.100.80

Comments

Diesel (please) how are you making zinc oxide formula

From: Please
Date: 21 Feb 2001
Time: 13:30:10
Remote Name: 213.1.201.178

Comments

How are u making the zinc oxide formula?

Re: Diesel (please) how are you making zinc oxide formula

From: diesel
Date: 21 Feb 2001
Time: 22:29:55
Remote Name: 64.12.105.36

Comments

I am making the zinc oxide formula by way of the instructions listed on the abstract that Trey has kindly posted above your post. I had the pharmacist order the zinc oxide powder(500grams)which arrived the next day. I also bought the boric acid from the pharmacy down a first aid isle. The corn starch is an organic starch I bought at the local grocery store. When I apply the mixture to my scalp, I apply in generously without rubbing it in. I also wear a shower cap I received during a hotel stay. The shower cap keeps the mixture from drying up. Hope this helps

Waseda & Diesel Re: Diesel (please) how are you making zinc oxide formula

From: Thanks
Date: 22 Feb 2001
Time: 11:45:27
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

After mixing the starch, boric cid, ad zinc oxide with water, I simmered it for 20 min rather than boil rapidly. Is this all right? The mixture appeared like watered-down gravy with gritty portions in it.

After applying to my head, I noticed that it soon dried and caked up on my scalp, the top of my head appearing as though I had dumped a bag of flour on it.

Am I doing this right? If not, should I take that mixture which is stored in the refrigerator right now and boild up again for a few minutes on high heat?

Re: Waseda & Diesel Re: Diesel (please) how are you making zinc oxide formula

From: fishy
Date: 22 Feb 2001
Time: 13:08:40
Remote Name: 152.163.195.178

Comments

hey thanks,,, don't simmer it you gotta boil it and continue stirring while you are boiling it,, then it will turn into a paste....

Re: Waseda & Diesel Re: Diesel (please) how are you making zinc oxide formula

From: diesel
Date: 22 Feb 2001
Time: 20:57:01
Remote Name: 152.163.213.184

Comments

Your mixture sounds as if it was prepared fine. The consistency of the mixture sounds the same as mine. Note that the mixture will thicken up through time due to possibly some moisture loss. My question is, how are you applying the mixture. I separate sections of my hair exposing the scalp and apply the mixture with a teaspoon. I dab the mixture on my scalp with my fingertips but do not rub it in. I also apply the mixture generously. I then wear a loose shower cap to prevent the mixture from drying up. If your mixture is still drying up you can make a mixture of water and boric acid and store it in a squirt bottle. Periodically, you can moisten the application. By the way, I'm sure it's not that big of a deal, but I also use spring water since tap water can contain chemicals and copper. Hope this helps.

p.s. My mixture also contains white hard particles. Mixture is gritty and the consistency of watered down creme/lotion

Re: Waseda & Diesel Re: Diesel (please)

From: Thanks
Date: 23 Feb 2001
Time: 13:57:13
Remote Name: 206.29.197.150

Comments

Thanks Diesel. I have such bare portions on my scalp that I don't have to do much to apply it, just glob it on. I'll get a shower cap next to preserve moisture. My question though: After the mix has laready simmered for 20 inutes, is it OK to reboil it?

Re: Waseda & Diesel Re: Diesel (please)

From: diesel
Date: 23 Feb 2001
Time: 18:36:35
Remote Name: 205.188.193.189

Comments

Can I reboil the mixture?

Waseda (please) Zinc oxide vs Zinc Sulfate; is 5% sufficient

From: Pepto
Date: 22 Feb 2001
Time: 15:14:01
Remote Name: 213.122.171.36

Comments

Is 5% zinc Oxide potent enough?

As long as the zinc oxide reaches the follicle, does one still need to use either the starch or boric/ascorbic acid?

Is there a way to make the formula so one can leave it on all night?

What is the difference between zinc oxide & zinc sulfate?

Thank you

Waseda (please) Zinc oxide vs Zinc Sulfate; is 5% sufficient

From: waseda
Date: 23 Feb 2001
Time: 08:19:23
Remote Name: 211.120.76.175

Comments

Patent treatment claims the range of concentration as

<<1. A pharmaceutical composition comprising 0.143%-3.93% by weight starch, 1.00%-23.8% by weight of a compound comprising boron, 0.625%-15.8% by weight of a compound comprising zinc, and 69.4%-97.8% water. >>

Surprisingly, only 0.625% of zinc seems to be effective according to the patent. As the weight of zinc element = 65.4 and that of zinc oxide = 81.4, the ratio of zinc to zinc oxide is about 80%. 0.625% of zinc correspond to 0.78% zinc oxide conctntration. So, 5% zinc oxide is supposed to be potent enough.

<<does one still need to use either the starch or boric/ascorbic acid?>>

Yes, Pepto, this is the most important point of zinc oxide treatment. Zinc oxide dissolves mainly in acid water solution and zinc is ionized to penetrate through our skin barrier. The reason zinc oxide cream alone which is in general alkaline can work is that the surface of our skin is normally kept to be weakly acid. This faint acidity enables the mild penetration of zinc ion and the stimulation of IGF-1 that is the potent healing substance of wound. But such amount is insufficient for rapid, strong stimulation of hair growth. Then we need additonal acid which is not so irritative, strong. Boric acid was found to be the first candidate among weak acids.

If you don't use any form of cream, you need starch for stickiness. It seems perfect liquidity is preferable at first sight. But as many experiments have demonstrated, sticky stuff that is imperfect liquid can convey more effective compounds through skin. This is why almost topical medicines are creamy.

<<Is there a way to make the formula so one can leave it on all night? >>

Baby cream + ascorbid acid water solution treatment is mild in many cases, and in fact I often forget already being applied and go to bed. As to my case (10% zinc oxide cream), there have never been troubles.

<<What is the difference between zinc oxide & zinc sulfate? >>

The reasons zinc oxide may be preferable to zinc sulfate are three for the time being, I think.

One is a tendency to irritation of zinc sulfate if it is high concentrated. Study (1) shows both zinc oxide and zinc sulfate are not irritant and promote hair growth, but we see the concenbtration of zinc sulfate is only 1%, while zinc oxide 20%. This can be interpreted as we can't raise the concentration of zinc sulfate too much.

Two is, while zinc ratio in zinc oxide is 80%, that in zinc sulfate is 40%.

Three is experimental fact. As is well known, insulin-like growth factor 1(IGF-1) has found to be crucial role in hair growth in recent studies (2). Zinc in general is supposed to potent stimulator of IGF-1. But in particular, topical zinc oxide in itself stimulates the IGF-1 as study (3) demonstrates.

Maybe, there are some other merits in zinc oxide, though I don't know yet.

***************

(1) Food Chem Toxicol 1991 Jan;29(1):57-64

Interspecies variations in response to topical application of selected zinc compounds.

Lansdown AB

Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School, Department of Comparative Biology, London, UK.

The dermal irritancy of six zinc compounds was examined in three animal models. In open patch tests involving five daily applications, zinc chloride (1% aqueous solution) was severely irritant in rabbit, guinea-pig and mouse tests, inducing epidermal hyperplasia and ulceration; aqueous zinc acetate (20%) was slightly less irritant. Zinc oxide (20% suspension dilute Tween 80), zinc sulphate (1% aqueous solution) and zinc pyrithione (20% suspension) were not overtly irritant, but induced a marginal epidermal hyperplasia and increased hair growth. Zinc undecylenate (20% suspension) was not irritant. Epidermal irritancy in these studies is related to the interaction of zinc ion with epidermal keratin. The compounds studied were not consistently bacteriostatic in the three species tested.

PMID: 1999306, UI: 91153738

(2) Dermatol Online J 1999 Nov;5(2):1

Insulin-like growth factor 1 and hair growth.

Su HY, Hickford JG, Bickerstaffe R, Palmer BR

Division of Molecular Neurobiology, University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, P.O. Box 670559, Cincinnati, OH 45267, USA.

Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) has been identified as an important growth factor in many biological systems.[1] It shares considerable structural homology with insulin and exerts insulin-like effects on food intake and glucose metabolism. Recently it has been suggested to play a role in regulating cellular proliferation and migration during the development of hair follicles. [2,3] To exert its biological effects, the IGF-1 is required to activate cells by binding to specific cell-surface receptors. The type I IGF receptor (IGF-1R) is the only IGF receptor to have IGF-mediated signaling functions.[1] In circulation, this growth factor mediates endocrine action of growth hormone (GH) on somatic growth and is bound to specific binding proteins (BPs). The latter control IGF transport, efflux from vascular compartments and association with cell surface receptors.[4] In tissues, IGF-1 is produced by mesenchymal type cells and acts in a paracrine and autocrine fashion by binding to the IGF-1R. This binding activates the receptor tyrosine kinase (RTK) that triggers the downstream responses and finally stimulates cell division.[5] IGF-1 may therefore be able to stimulate the proliferation of hair follicle cells through cellular signaling pathways of its receptors. Local infusion of IGF-1 into sheep has been reported to be capable of stimulating protein synthesis in the skin.[6] It may also increase the production of wool keratin. Recently, transgenic mice overexpressing IGF-1 in the skin have been shown to have earlier hair follicle development than controls.[7] In addition, this growth factor plays an important role in many cell types as a survival factor to prevent cell death.[8] This anti-apoptotic function of IGF-1 may be important to the development of follicle cells as follicles undergo a growth cycle where the regressive, catagen phase is apoptosis driven. In this review, the effects of IGF-1 on follicle cell proliferation and differentiation are discussed. In particular, the paracrine versus endocrine action of IGF-1 on hair growth and the targeting of expression of the growth factor to the follicles of transgenic animals will be emphasized. The anti-apoptotic role of IGF-1 in hair follicles is also reviewed. Prospects for future studies on hair and fiber growth by IGF-1 are discussed.

PMID: 10673454, UI: 20139665

(3) Scand J Plast Reconstr Surg Hand Surg 1994 Dec;28(4):255-9

Topical zinc oxide treatment increases endogenous gene expression of insulin-like growth factor-1 in granulation tissue from porcine wounds.

Tarnow P, Agren M, Steenfos H, Jansson JO

Department of Plastic Surgery, Sahlgrenska Hospital, Goteborg, Sweden.

Application of zinc oxide has been shown to accelerate the healing of both chronic and acute wounds, but the mechanisms are unknown. We quantified the gene expression (mRNA) for one important growth factor, insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) in 12 full-thickness wounds in each of three domestic pigs treated with or without topical zinc oxide. We used a RNAase protection/solution hybridisation technique to measure IGF-1 mRNA concentrations, which were 50% higher in the granulation tissue in wounds treated with zinc oxide compared with control wounds on days 3-4 (p < 0.05), but not thereafter (up to postoperative day 11). Topical zinc oxide increased the healing rate of wounds compared to the control group (p < 0.01). The cell composition of the granulation tissue was similar in the two groups. The increased gene expression of IGF-1 may be one mechanism by which topical zinc oxide enhances wound healing.

FISHY...’s Formula

From: Matt
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 03:37:38
Remote Name: 64.12.105.42

Comments

Hey Fishy: I am encouraged by your results and had a question. I plan to start this treatment myself. Are you using the same ingredients mentioned on the Patent Instruction Post? ( 10% starch, 60% Boric Acid, 40% Zinc Oxide, Water ). Also, what kind and where do you get the Zinc Oxide you are using. This sounds very exciting.....Matt

Re: FISHY...Question for you

From: fishy
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 03:48:37
Remote Name: 205.188.195.29

Comments

My zinc oxide mixture just dried up in 1 night !!!!

From: Worried
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 09:14:22
Remote Name: 32.102.10.211

Comments

How do u guys keep it moistured ???Maybe Ive boiled it too long ??

Re: My zinc oxide mixture just dried up in 1 night !!!!

From: diesel
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 12:19:19
Remote Name: 205.188.197.56

Comments

Waseda (Please) – Azelaic Acid

From: Pepto
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 13:12:21
Remote Name: 62.7.22.179

Comments

Would using azelic acid instead of boric acid or ascorbic acid be OK/better/the same?

If so, do you know how much azelic acid to use with 5% zinc oxide?

I understand the acid used along with the zinc oxide helps the penetration of the zinc into our scalp. However if it is in a liposome base am I correct in saying having an acid does not matter as zinc oxide in a liposome base will penetrate the skin equally as well?

Thank you

Re: Waseda (Please)

From: waseda
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 17:29:21
Remote Name: 211.132.34.179

Comments

As azelaic acid is relatively irritative, it can't be vertually used as very high concentration. We may think it same as ascorbic acid, retin-A, and acetic acid. All are normally used at most 5% concentration. 2-3% concentration is thought of moderate. In fact, almost products containing over 3% of such acids for human uses are required approval of Koseisho(Japanese FDA). I think 3% may be adequate.

We can't illustrate immediately the process of reaction when we apply the liposome base zinc oxide along with some acid, because while liposeme base zinc oxide certainly penetrates the skin with ease, acid water solution can't do so. Lisposome may block the contact of zinc oxide with acid on the surface of skin.

Making Zinc Cream-but what weight and how much?

From: AquaMan
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 15:22:19
Remote Name: 64.229.132.110

Comments

I have 500 grams of ascorbic acid and 1pound of Zinc Oxide. Can someone tell me exactly how much of each i need to make to use? I don't ant to hurt my scalp at all. Very nervous. Also, do i have to boil it and moisten it everytime I want to use it? thanks

Re: Making Zinc Cream-but what weight and how much?

From: waseda
Date: 24 Feb 2001
Time: 18:10:55
Remote Name: 211.132.34.94

Comments

Aquaman, you need corn starch other than those.

First, make creamy stuff from zinc oxide powder and starch. The easy way is to prepare 500ml of water, add 50g of zinc oxide powder and 10g of starch, and boil them about 20 minutes. You have to store it in a bottle with lid and in refrigerator.

Next, make 3% of ascorbic acid water solution seperately. For example 3g of AA and 100ml of water. Never boil it because ascorbic acid is weak at high temperature. Store it also in refrigerator. Perhaps this much is enough for one month's use.

You have only to mix the creamy zinc oxide (adeqauate volume) with ascorbic water solution (a few ml) each time you apply them.

As you use ascorbic acid instead of boric acid, you can apply it for one hour, and wash it off.

If you feel itchy or irritative, you may wash it away earlier.

Good luck

Thorin, ascorbic acid concentration was corrected to 10% recently as a feed back of Cellex-C's success. Cellex-C has 10%.

The corrected recipe is:

1. prepare zinc oxide solution.

2. prepare 10g ascorbic acid powder + 100ml water.=10% concentration ascorbic acid water solution.

3. Everytime you apply them, mix the1- 2ml of zinc oxide solution with 1-2ml of ascorbic solution, and apply them(total 2-4ml) on your scalp.

The exact concentration of ascorbic acid is decreased in the mixture, but the resultant concentration will be over 5% less than 10%.

The pH's of ascorbic acid water solution are in fact relatively stable, about 1.8-2.0 for 10% and 5%. This is common property of almost all weak acid solution. Then, you need not worry about exact concentration too much.