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Forum 22 – Topical Anti-Andro cream Fina-Spiro-bayberry cream is certainly works. It's verturlly RU/Duta alternative From: waseda Date: 9/24/2001 Time: 9:09:25 AM Remote Name: 211.132.34.166 Comments Yes, especially topical Finasteride cream really works.
There are many success stories here with topical Finasteride addition. Topical finasteride cream is very easy to make. A few
examples: 1) 40ml horse oil + powdered 30mg (6 tablets) Fincar
(Indian version of Finasteride) + 2ml 50% alcohol.--->(mix into cream) 2) 40ml emu oil + powdered 30mg (6 tablets) Fincar
(Indian version of Finasteride) + 2ml 50% alcohol--->(mix into cream). 3) 40ml Dermovan or Dermabase + powdered 30mg (6
tablets) Fincar (Indian version of Finasteride) + 2ml 50% alcohol--->(mix
into cream). Fincar is recommendable because it doesn't wear
excessive hull. Some adds spiro powder and/or bayberry extract. This
strengthened version of 'Fina-Spiro-cream' is though here as a RU or
Dutasteride alternative. I can claim with confidence Fina-Spiro-cream with
Bayberry extract is the strongest (but with little side effect)
anti-androgenic topical in this world. Of course you can seperately use
bayberry extract with the Fina-Spiro-Cream. How and when to use it: For example, apply minox, Souhakuhi, etc. and soon
after the application, spread the cream over them. The cream plays as an
'occlusion' for preventing alcohol evaporation. You might feel oily cover
but the Finasteride is very slowly absorbed with the oil thus you can avoid
systemic side effect otherwise happens. Re: Fina-Spiro-bayberry cream is certainly works. It's
verturlly ... From: HairSite Date: 9/24/2001 Time: 12:50:36 PM Remote Name: 66.88.192.59 Comments THANKS Waseda One question; since there are 3 versions (horse oil,
emu oil, and Dermovan), can you tell us if people with certain conditions
would benefit more from horse oil than from Emu oil and vice versa ? Emu oil is very easy to find in the U.S, so I assume
there is no problem for people to locate emu oil. I will ask Ancientway and
Shanghai Sahanji to see if they can get horse oil. Thanks....and are you currently using this cream ? Re: Fina-Spiro-bayberry cream is certainly works. It's
vertur... From: waseda Date: 9/24/2001 Time: 2:57:30 PM Remote Name: 211.132.32.245 Comments If people of many countries can get horse oil easily,
inexpensively, then I recommend it in that it has a long history of usage
for skin troubles, hair care etc. and is safe. I have tried the cream
sometimes but now I am using it for topical finasteride as well as a kind of
occlusion of other growers. Considering cost, emu oil is superior to horse oil. Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to cream ? n/t From: BC Date: 9/24/2001 Time: 3:39:57 PM Remote Name: 216.221.137.159 Comments Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to crea... From: waseda Date: 9/24/2001 Time: 4:25:31 PM Remote Name: 211.13.141.66 Comments In case of adding spironolactone, no brand Newzealand
made 'Spironotone' is adequate, for it contains little hull substance. As spiro powder is a little hard to dissolve in oil,
increase alcohol and base oil, e.g. 3ml(alcohol) and 75ml(base oil). 1800mg
(=100mg*18) spiro is needed for 30 days use. Bayberry extract must be seperately used but for
instance, apply the extract and soon spread the cream over it. Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to cre... From: HairSite Date: 9/25/2001 Time: 1:19:56 PM Remote Name: 66.88.192.59 Comments I am trying to put together a list of vendors for these
ingredients, if someone can help me, that would be great. 1) Fincar - this used to be available from
www.drugsrus.com but when I went to the website yesterday, they said they
are doing maintenance right now. Any other sources or vendors ? Of course we
can simply get Proscar on the internet, but I believe Fincar from India is a
lot cheaper. 2) Spirotone - this is the generic brand of the oral
medication Aldactone, and I think both are essentially 100% spironolactone
which is a potent anti-androgen. I think Pharmacy Care sells both Spirotone
and Aldactone www.pharmacycare.co.nz 3) Bayberry - Ancientway.com or Shanghai Sahanji (see
banners at bottom of this page) 4) Emu Oil - www.uniquelyemu.com or www.nzemu.com or do
a search on the internet....there are numerous vendors. I think even Dr.
Pickart sells Emu oil at his website www.skinbio.com but remember I think we
need to get pure emu oil, not sure if Dr. Pickart includes anything else in
his emu oil products. 5) Horse Oil - still trying to contact Ancientway and
Shanghai Sahanhji to see if they sell these. 6) Dermovan - www.ssrg.com/ibs/index.html or
worlddrugstore.com or rx.com Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to cre... From: HairSite Date: 9/25/2001 Time: 2:45:15 PM Remote Name: 66.88.192.59 Comments Waseda, can we use Dr. Lee's topical spiro 5%
lotion/cream ? http://www.minoxidil.com/topical.htm Jean just bought one from them and she said its
consistency is very much like that of cream..... Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to cre... From: waseda Date: 9/25/2001 Time: 3:22:55 PM Remote Name: 211.132.34.175 Comments Considering many posts here saying creamy spiro/finasteride
is much better than alcohol base, Dr. Lee's 5% cream will work as well. If one can get it, adding finestride power to it will
make the cream more powerful anti-androgen. So we can make use of the cream
as a finasteride cream. Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to cre... From: ant Date: 9/26/2001 Time: 2:56:41 AM Remote Name: 144.138.81.96 Comments waseda in your opinon could we add fincar to dr lees
cream(30mg) or do we need to make seperate eg emu oil,fincar,alcohol mix.
then apply dr lees to make use of the liposomes deliver. Re: Wasenda... How much Spiro-bayberry
powder to add to cre... From: waseda Date: 9/26/2001 Time: 9:27:58 AM Remote Name: 211.120.76.151 Comments My thought on Dr. Lee's cream is that it must be
optimized to break through horney layer and to stay the main ingredient (spiro)
within dermis for relatively long time. If you want to recourse to topical
Finasteride, it's the best cream for the base of Fin. But, you should seperate minox from spiro in order not react each other. Minohorse or Mino-dermovan seperately using is the best method, I think. URL for fincar From: confused Date: 9/28/2001 Time: 2:32:13 PM Remote Name: 157.95.211.50 Comments Here is the URL where to order fincar. Waseda: in conjunction with the topical finasteride Date: 9/28/2001 Time: 6:56:22 PM Remote Name: 152.163.197.199 Comments are you still then using GSE and Z/O along with this
spiro/finasteride ?? Re: Waseda: in conjunction with the topical finasteride From: waseda Date: 9/29/2001 Time: 1:31:43 PM Remote Name: 211.13.143.82 Comments Of course yes. From: waseda Date: 9/29/2001 Time: 1:48:32 PM Remote Name: 61.114.201.201 Comments Our recent finding here is horse-oil(or at least emu-oil)
base growers, that is creamy growers made of oil containg much unstured
fatty acids really thicken and promote hairs just as old Chinese book
indicated. Though you will feel greasy with creamy base growers and may hate that feeling for some days, but, but....., the result will show the correctness of old Chinese people From: LS Date: 9/30/2001 Time: 9:32:52 PM Remote Name: 64.170.56.139 Comments Waseda, Just to clarify, is it okay to mix Finasteride and the
Spironolactone into one cream solution? If so, is the mixture still the
same? This would be 30mg of Fincar, 1800mg of Spironolactone, 3 ml of 50%
alcohol and 75ml of horse oil/emu oil. Would this be correct? Also, does the solution need to
be kept in the refrigerator? Re: To Waseda: Fina-Spiro
Cream From: waseda Date: 10/1/2001 Time: 1:52:48 PM Remote Name: 61.114.200.190 Comments Basically, that is good. But, there are some kinds of spiro tablets. Some may easy to dissolve, some may not. If you find your spiro hard to dissolve, then increase the base oil and added alcohol bit by bit. From: smith Date: 10/1/2001 Time: 3:15:32 AM Remote Name: 212.182.114.136 Comments well, shanghai sahanji is offering horse oil but it costs 28$ for 75 ml ! I think that's expensive, and also you've mentioned that in Japan it is cheap and reliable. Do you know any other
places that sell horse oil? Thanks Re: Question to Waseda From: waseda Date: 10/1/2001 Time: 2:22:28 PM Remote Name: 211.120.76.78 Comments I have checked the prices on the net. The most famous brand is 'Yakushido'(http://www.yakushido.com/syouhin_index.htm). Noramal horse oil is 2000yen =$17 for 75ml. How is your product's volume?? There are tons of products of horse oil here. How about
contacting with Ancientway and asking him if he can import at more
reasonable price?? Yakishido's e-mail is: Waseda, is Horse Oil good just on it's own (no mix?) From: MS Date: 10/1/2001 Time: 1:24:58 PM Remote Name: 205.188.195.174 Comments Waseda, I usually end my topical application regimen with straight Emu Oil. After reading posts here, I am thinking of just replacing it with Horse Oil. Will this do any good besides acting as an occlusion layer (i.e. will it help increase absorbtion of previously applied topicals which it was not mixed with). Also, any thoughts on where in regimen to add
AncientWay Zno since it contains waxes and parafins? My thoughts on
application, any input appreciated; Lipoxidil GSS/Lygal Spiro Cream (Dr. Lee's) SoukhaniBayberry Morehairin (mixed with Phytosomal GSE and EGCG) AncientWay Liposomal Zno Emu Oil [not sure where to add
Revivogen, may just leave it out) Re: Waseda, is Horse Oil good just on it's own (no
mix?) From: waseda Date: 10/2/2001 Time: 12:36:10 PM Remote Name: 211.132.33.229 Comments This is the composition of horse oil comapared to other
oils(%). fatty acid horse oil pig oil bovine oil olive oil lauric acid 0.32 0.74 0.07 0.74 myristic acid 4.50 2.19 2.92 --- myristoleic acid 0.54 0.37 1.01 --- pentadecanoic acid 0.32 --- --- --- palmitic acid 27.78 28.17 23.38 10.10 palmitoleic acid 8.17 3.04 3.39 1.02 heptadecanoic acid 0.36 0.60 1.01 0.10 stearic acid 4.66 13.22 16.92 ---- oleic acid 36.42 38.59 43.41 79.89 linoleic acid 14.46 8.84 4.00 6.13 linolenic acid 1.14 --- --- 1.51 eicosanoic acid 0.56 0.61 0.53 0.39 eicosapentaenoic acid(EPA)0.28 --- ---- --- ---------------------------- satured fatty acid 37.62 44.92 44.39 10.94 unsatured fatty acid 62.38 51.85 53.17 89.02 You can see horse oil includes pentadecanoic acid, linolenic acid and EPA which are not included in other oils, and the ratio of unsatured fatty acid in horse oil is higher than that of other animal oils. Such composition has been found to be both anti-androgenic and hair-promoting in studies. I can believe enough the tradition that the horse oil is said to be good for hair growth in itself. Re: question for Waseda, pleas From: waseda Date: 10/2/2001 Time: 12:47:12 PM Remote Name: 211.132.38.174 Comments Jean, your case is just applicable to using horse oil!! The usage is only to spread it thinly over any stuffs. The ratio of unsatured fatty acid of the horse oil is almost same as human's and in addition, hair promoting and anti-androgenic. Waseda, why so excited about topical fin? From: MS Date: 10/1/2001 Time: 4:41:53 PM Remote Name: 152.163.194.184 Comments Waseda, although I am aware that at some point Merck
tested Fin topically (concluded compliance not good vs. oral), Fin has never
been acknowledged to be as good an "anti-androgen" (or 5ar
inhibitor) as other agents including Spiro and as far as I can tell EGCG or
"newer" agents such as freeform fatty-acids and GSE. What about it make you feel it is the "ideal"
topcial? Wouldn't you think a regimen that includes Spiro,
Bayberry, EGCG, GSE would attack androgens and dht-conversion topically as
well as anything? Re: Waseda, why so excited about topical fin? From: baldilocks Date: 10/1/2001 Time: 5:44:44 PM Remote Name: 206.29.197.150 Comments Also for Waseda: Do you agree with the assessment presented here that
topical Finasteride works only because it gets systematically absorbed, in
which case there is litle benefit to taking it topically as opposed to
orally? Re: Waseda, why so excited about topical fin? From: waseda Date: 10/2/2001 Time: 1:51:40 PM Remote Name: 211.120.76.172 Comments Recent studies have gradually revealed some pathways where DHT causes hair loss. A main root is that DHT promotes caspase 3, 9, etc. Caspases are cysteine proteases which cause cell apoptosis when activated. For example, it is found that DHT promotes TGF-beta2 which activates caspase 9 and the activated caspase 9 propagates the activity toward the downstrem caspase 3. This progresses the keratinocytes' apoptosis.
Keratinocytes' apoptosis means just the start of catagen phase. Thus our strategy for preventing AGA contains 1)
blocking DHT or blocking 5AR which converts testostelone to DHT, 2)
inhibiting TGF-beta family ( I will show soon how to do for that purpose),
3) blocking the caspase activity cascade. I directed my attention to Dr. Sawaya's new study in
Tokyo conference this year that Finasteride may effect directly on caspase
regulation. "(snip)AGA affected tissues showed an increase in
caspase (-1, -3, -6, -9) immunoreactivity with a concomitant decrease in
XIAP staining. After 6 months of finasteride treatment both caspases and
XIAP were similar to levels exhibited by normal subjects. Immunoblot
analysis was performed to determine antibody specificity and cellular
expression of caspases. (snip) finasteride appears to influence caspase and
XIAP expression in hair follicle cells thus signaling anagen, active growth
in the hair cycle". (Effects of Finasteride on Apoptosis and Regulation
of the Human Hair Cycle. Marty E. Sawaya et.al) To tell the truth, I am already satisfied with
spiro+bayberry for preventing androgens. But, I have been thinking about
many posts here claiming 'Topical Fin with greasy base really works far
better than oral Fin'. cascade. Here's where to get Spiro lotion and Finasteride From: sundancekid Date: 10/3/2001 Time: 9:37:45 PM Remote Name: 66.27.102.75 Comments they have spiro5% in liquid base not cream, so it's not
too greasy. http://www.minoxidil.com/scripts/webcart-lite/webcart.pl?ENTER http://www.minoxidil.com/topical.htm end of forum 22
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